so, the post from the mailbag stirred up lotsa lotsa good discussion. i think, after reading through it today, i am going to separate out a few topics which brought out some great chit chat.
one of those things – tithing.
some people said it’s not necessarily biblical to tithe at all. some people said 10% wasn’t required. some people said it should be given to the church. some people said the church is hard to define, so who’s to say the bible doesn’t just mean THE CHURCH?
what do you think…and why?
Comments
60 responses to “that tithing thing”
I am not writing this as a “definite” for tithing, but more as a thought I have been having lately. I would like to pastor a church that didn’t have building payments, staff salaries, or didn’t need money for Bible study materials, so that people could be free to “tithe” any place they saw a need. Their tithe could go to taking a co-worker to lunch every week and help build that relationship. Their tithe could go to Compassion or Gospel for Asia. Their tithe could be used to help fix their neighbors car, or take one of their child’s friends to go skiing with the family. I think if people had to make personal decisions about what would happen with their tithe, not just whether they should or shouldn’t tithe, they be more vested in that ministry. They would spend more time praying for that co-worker, missionary, or neighbor. It would become personal.
I think that after the Holy Spirit came into the equation, it changed things. Christ came not to do away with the law, but to fulfill it. Well what does that mean? It means that man (and women) were not made for the law (read: 10% or any other law) but rather the law was made for us. The 10% turns into 100%, according to Christ when he watched the widow put her mite into the offering plate.
So who are we tithing too? The Church? Nope. We are tithing above all else God. Christ said whatever we did for the least of these, we did for Him. That’s not to say that I can’t tithe in the offering plate. Obviously the church would then take that and use it to minister to others.
At any rate, there’s my two mites (cents) worth.
I think the ultimate purpose of “tithe” is simply worship. The Lord commanded Israel to give its first fruits, the best of the best to Him as an offering of praise and worship. Now that we don’t have bulls, rams, and corn to burn on altars – we have time and money. And, we burn both of them daily in some shape form or fashion…and I’m thinking thru this as I type, but I think how we choose to burn them is the real question at hand.
I think I’ve misunderstood the “tithe” this whole time. It’s not an A-B-C standard, as I see it. There’s no “right or wrong” way that I can find.
Might this possibly fall into the Romans 14 category of following conviction and faith? In Romans 14:23 Paul says – “…For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin.”
If we give out of faith, whether to the church, to charity, to the homeless, to a friend in need, to a community need, etc, isn’t that worship?
I give to my church because I love my church and I love the vision of my church. I personally love knowing that what I’m giving is accomplishing more than I could imagine doing on my own – feeding the community, putting shoes on needy children’s feet, providing worship experiences for thousands, etc.
Might we also consider Jesus’ words in Matthew 25:40?
This is an interesting question. It seems to me that tithing is more about tradition than anything else.
I think 10 percent is a good guideline, but only in the context of understanding that it is all God’s.
I personally don’t give money to a church. I give money to needs I encounter in others lives as they come up, in addition to regular giving to Compassion, etc.
just a snapshot since i am not able right now to do the Scriptural legwork:
i think one would be hard pressed to find solid ground for an argument that suggests that there is any ambiguity about our first fruits (for most, that would mean finances) being offered back to God.
nevermind for the moment the percentage or amount. for those in a submitted relationship with God through Christ, a measure of our trust and obedience is the return of a portion of His gracious provision through the faith community.
my challenge for folks who are unsettled about that tithe going to their local church is that they evaluate why they are unsettled. is the leadership poorly stewarding their resources? is the Kingdom not growing through their ministry? is the teaching (legitimately) not Biblical?
it would seem incongruous to me to commit to a local body of the Church, worship corporately there, serve in some way, and, then, choose that my first fruits go elsewhere.
thanks for spurring us, anne!
Sigh. I get tired of listening to people making excuses to cling to their money with all their might.
Tithe means tenth. It’s commanded. Just obey, people! Obey and be happy. That’s what this life is all about!
Ahhh – the tithe question. Man I used to struggle really bad with this. But now we set aside 10% every month. Sometimes the whole 10% goes to our church. Sometimes some other thing comes up like a mission trip we want to sponsor or a need in our circle of folks that we want to support. And sometimes we go above and beyond the 10% – actually – pretty regularly because we comitted to that with our new building phase at church.
As long as we understand its all God’s and that He probably has an eye on what we’re doing with his dough we should give where we feel He wants us to.
I have a feeling he is just kicked back smiling as we try to make sense of tithing and giving and being good stewards. We’re probably missing it altogether. That’s what we humans seem to be best at.
I think the Bible teaches us A TON about tithing but as Christ followers we tend to pick and choose which parts we are ok with.
Some people say that tithing was a old testament law, so therefore we don’t have to do it. But if you look, tithing was actually established as a principle with Abraham. Abraham was tithing his 10% almost 400 years before Moses was ever even born.
So there is the practical side of it. The practical side is this: we are supposed to tithe 10 percent to our local church. That’s the way God has set it all up.
And think about it this way: if EVERY believer did that (attended a church and gave 10%) we would share Christ with the entire world in a matter of months; there would be no such thing as a “lack of resources” in our churches.
But, the Bible also teaches us that tithing has to do with the state of our hearts. I know that in my walk with Christ, my money was the last last last part of my life that I gave to God. We like to give God the easy parts of our lives…sometimes we might even dip into our personal time and serve at an event or a church. But we hold on to that money with a death grip. This is where it becomes a heart issue. Because if God REALLY has your heart, all of it…he’ll have your wallet to.
I have had Christians tell me that tithing isn’t in the new testament. Not true. Jesus only commended the Pharisees ONCE for anything…and it was for their tithing. You can read that story in Matthew 23.
Here’s what I have found in my own life: Tithing draws me closer to God, giving makes me more like Jesus, and giving is the antidote to the materialism that I battle every day. I can’t think of a better investment to make than one that deals so directly with people’s eternity.
Rick Warren tithes 90% and lives on 10%. I want to do that one day…
Yeah, I strongly believe it goes to the local church. In Malachi it says to bring your tithe to the storehouse. That was at the temple and was specifically used by the church leaders for ministry. I think there is a reason we are commanded to bring the tithe there.
Just because we live under the New Testament covenant doesn’t make the spiritual commands of the Old Testament any less valid. If we were under the law then, and under grace now, shouldn’t grace be even MORE generous?
God cares deeply for the local church and the tithe is instituted in part as a means for that church to thrive. It is also deeply connected to our own worship and generosity. It doesn’t have to be an either/or.
My wife and I fully believe that. We also give to Compassion. We also give to missionaries when the need arises. But that doesn’t come out of our tithe. That is an offering above and beyond our tithe. I say that not to boast, but to illustrate our belief in that principle.
How different would all of us give if we asked how much we need to keep, and gave the rest away, rather than the other way around.
Again, tithing is not an Old Testament Law…its an old testament principle…
Just read Viola’s section on tithing in Pagan Christianity. The New Testament Christians had no concept of the tithe. The New Testament calls believers to give according to their ability, and to give as they feel led to give, out of joy. The modern idea of the tithe exists as a result of the combination of the church with secular authority, which used the “tithe” as a way to forcibly fund church operations. Viola explains how tithing in the Old Testament was designed to help the poor, but in the modern understanding of a tithe, the church expects even the poor to give 10%, and makes them feel guilty if they are unable to do so. The tithe becomes a cop-out for those with a lot of money (because they can easily give the “required” 10% and ease their conscience), while becoming a burden of guilt on the poor. All to fund further religious specialization of the clergy, which is another thing that is definitely non-existent in the New Testament.
loving the convo…
zak…your thoughts seem pretty 180 to derek’s. what do you think?
Just popped in to say…nice banner
I just posted a long blog on this if you’re interested in reading it.
Can I say I agree with everything here? I used to be a huge, huge cynic on this issue. It’s important to give yourself time to work through those difficult questions with no easy answers.
In the end it’s all about what motivates the heart in your relationship between you and Jesus Christ. We’re either ignoring Him, obeying Him, or in love with Him – there’s some big differences there. If I’m being honest, any given day, I’m lingering somewhere between the three.
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.”
Matthew 23:23
Sounds like Jesus had a concept of the tithe…in the New Testament. And he says they should not have left this undone.
I have trouble buying the “cop out” for the wealthy one too. You say it’s easy for those with money to tithe, yet it seems to me that no matter how much money people have they tend to find all the same reasons to need to hold on to it.
In fact, compared to the rest of the world, even the poor in the United States could be considered rich.
I agree with D Rho- motives are the key. Personally, I think if we pick and choose where we want our money to go, then we are still wanting control of it. If we give it to the Church, at least it’s out of our own hands and we have to have faith that He will do with it what He wants through the Church. I trust the leadership at my church as well so that helps :)
Hi Anne,
I’m a new subscriber to the blog and ur twitter … have followed you “vicariously” through other blogs, Compassion, etc. I’m a Worship Pastor on St. Simons Island, GA and blog myself. Thanks for the great content and thought-provoking discussions.
I’ve actually re-evaluated this in my own life … my wife and I, over the last few years, really started challenging everything we ever just “accepted” as truth because we heard it in church. We began to seek out the answers from the Bible.
In our hearts, we firmly believe that the tithe belongs to God. Unlike Old Testament law, God doesn’t “require it” under grace, but I think that’s all the more reason we should willingly give. We don’t think twice about tithing 10% of our gross income (that’s a whole different argument, gross vs net, right!) and make offerings above this.
Our main question over the years has been what the “storehouse” really means. The “storehouse” to me is symbolic of provision. Give 10% back to your source of provision. To many, that is definitely the local church. To others, even for a season, that storehouse may be somewhere else. I think there is something significant about that word, though, and it represents that you are giving BACK to a place you are receiving FROM.
I think that random (even Spirit-led) gifts to charities, people in need, etc., are wonderful, beautiful acts of giving … “free will offerings” to use an OT phrase .. but I wouldn’t necessarily refer to that as a “tithe”.
So, I’m not completely SOLD on that idea that the “storehouse” has to always be the local church, but as a staff person for a thriving, incredible local church, I’d hate to think that people would hesitate to consider the spiritual nourishment and community they receive there as not being counted as part of their “storehouse”.
Looking forward to the ongoing discussion!
Fred McKinnon
Nehemiah 13 reveals another dimension to this topic about tithing – you can read about it here: (http://www.youversion.com/nasb/Neh.13.1).
Another purpose of the Biblical tithe was for the care and support of the Levites – those called by God to lead the Israelites in worship. Sadly, the Levites had to leave their Temple duties due to a lack of support (tithes) from the Israelites. Ask yourself, would your local church function without your youth pastor? Worship leader/band? Pastor?
The tithe is holy. It belongs to the Lord. Bring the tithe into the storehouse so that those called by God to served may be cared for.
I think the fact that we have to argue about this and discuss it over and over shows us that we do have an issue with this and it is in our hearts. I think that as we address the heart issue and respond obediently to the Lord we will not feel a need to mull this over so frequently. Bottom line for me is that the tighter I am holding onto my money (which can be seen in how regularly I give, how much I give, and how at peace I am with what I am giving) the further away I am from God. Money can easily become an idol and that is why I think this issue hits such a nerve for so many people. Just my thoughts.
Okay – let’s just settle this once and for all. I love God the Father, Jesus his Son, and the Holy Spirit. If you don’t want to give the “tithe” to the church then I will gladly accept it on the “church’s” behalf and use it for ministry. I think that sounds fair. I’ll be checking my mailbox daily for your checks.
Scott, do you take traveler’s checks?
If we believe that God is our provider then does any of it belong to us? Is it too much to ask that we give of our first fruits?
My conviction is that my wife and I give 10% of our income BEFORE taxes. When Jesus said to give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar and to God what is God’s (Matthew 22:21), did He mean to give God out of what was left over? I doubt it. But that is MY conviction.
I have to say that when I started tithing I had well over $10,000 in credit card debt and I was not making very much money. I gave because I wanted to. I gave because I knew it was right. I gave because I had to obey and trust that God would do what He says He will do. He will bless me until I have more than I need to live on (Proverbs 3:9-10) and that is just what He did. I had the debt paid of in less than six months and I have never done it again. My wife and I have a house and two cars that we finance and one of those will be done here shortly.
I cannot prove that it was because of my obedience in tithing that I was able to pay off my debt but I know in my heart that was the case.
On a side note, I don’t believe I should count giving to people in need, missions, the homeless or countless other charities as part of my 10% tithe. Those I consider to be personal sacrifices for which I consider all joy.
Blessings,
Dave
I think that the concept of the “tithe” is so much more. my pastor just spoke on the tithe. After his study he shared that the tithe, or taking the 10th of a 100 that is “unclean” and setting the 10 percent off as “holy” and to the Lord.
So the whole concept is setting off some of the unclean as clean so that God will bless the other 90%.
I am sorry if this doesnt make sense…it made sense when he taught it and in my head.
I don’t give much to my local church because it doesn’t really need it. I think this might be an instance where we view the local gathering as THE church, instead of the entire body as the church. I probably give 90 percent of my tithes and offerings to organizations, missionary friends, and others. They are the ones in need. My church has in abundance (I go to budget meetings and I know.)
For me it is two-fold:
1. Whatever I have, I give first to God. Money, joy, sorrow, job, time, whatever. Give first to God in all.
2. I don’t look at it like “must pay ten percent”. An easier way to look at it, “I am not carrying my resources but God’s. I am but a UPS delivery guy. God will tell me if he needs me to drop off His resources somewhere and I simply go and take it to them.
God loves a cheerful giver…If we are tithing because we feel pressured to or guilted then we are not giving from our hearts…We have impure motives.The more we surrender to Jesus the easier it is to give freely of our resources. And we start WANTING to. It is a process…That is why it is called GROWING. If anyone is hearing this: “If you don’t tithe you are disobeying God and he will not be happy with you” Rebuke that. Break it off of you. There is no condemnation for us in Christ Jesus. Our giving should be a natural outflow – not a forced religious act.
Is tithing good? Absolutely! Is giving over and above that better? YES! But do it because you’re in a place where you WANT to even if it’s hard. You WANT to do it because you love and trust God. If you aren’t in that place, it’s OK. Don’t beat yourself up for not trusting God enough. God knows your heart, your fears, your concerns, your financial situation. And He LOVES you. Ask and He will bring you to the place where giving is as natural as breathing. This may well take TIME. Give what you can from where you are. Start with 1%…Start with a quarter. Start by buying coffee for the person behind you in line at Starbucks. The point is to take the steps of faith so we can be refined like gold in the fire – not to prove that we’re obedient and awesome and we get it, nanny-nanny. That’s the yeast of the Pharisees.
Be FREE in Christ! The rest will follow.
And if you look at the church in Acts, they gave everything…not just a tenth. “Selling their possessions and good, they gave to anyone as he had need”. And then the writer says…”the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.”
I think we should spend less time with calculators and more time giving generously to God’s Kingdom.
It’s always interesting to read things like “the tithe is commanded”. It is not commanded of Christianity, but very much so was a principle for the Jews.
Paul nailed giving perfectly and some have alluded here to it. We should give out of joy…worship. It is already God’s. Give more than a tenth. that is a great principle to live by, but should never be a rule or order. To make it rule completely destroys that act of giving and makes it a duty.
We can’t go back to “law” and pick and choose parts of it and say it is commanded. It’s all or nothing. And Jesus has come to fulfill it.
So, lets give everything. Let’s share it all. Let’s quit being selfish consumers and start caring for those in need.
Which brings us back to this…
Who the tithe is given to is not as big an issue as to how it is being used. Do we give 10% to our local church organization and they turn around and use 80% of it to pay for debt and staff?
I think Susan and I were posting at the same time.
I LOVE what she just said!
Anne…Hmmmm…
I agree about how people may feel at times, with what Derek said.
Speaking of feelings, I never even really considered myself a giver until I started giving beyond the 10%. I feel like the 10% is the bare minimum. The day we started giving 11% I felt like a giver…
In my experience thus far, its typically those whose lives are out of control financially that don’t give. It usually doesn’t have to do with how much you make.
I wasn’t a giver until we got our finances under control. We did the whole Dave Ramsey Financial Peace thing…which by the way should be required for ALL HIGH SCHOOL students to graduate.
Now, because of our devotion to God and the mission we all have here on Earth of reaching the lost, we currently tithe 20% of our income. We don’t make much…I’m a full time pastor. And I want to reach the goal of “reverse tithing” (giving 90% and living on 10%) asap.
I know, its a big goal that I’ll probably never reach. But I just believe that life is ALL about Jesus and introducing others to him so I see tithing as THE most important investment anyone can make.
Maybe if I attended a stale church that wasn’t doing anything to change lives I’d feel different. But at our church, lives are being changed weekly. I’ll give everything I have to that.
Is it a conflict of interest for a pastor to discuss giving in a church? I am sure a pastor would say that he is supposed to declare God’s word and the Bible says…..
On the other hand it sounds to me when they discuss this issue that they are doing it because their job somewhat depends on other people giving to their church.
Giving is our families second largest expendeture and we believe that giving is a good way to continue to worship God and acknowledge that He is control.
Another thing, our church has given people the opportunity to have your giving done by EFT on specified days. Doesn’t that feel more like a bill than a offering/tithe?
I agree with Adam S that I should intelligently assess my local church’s need. What do they need to meet their current vision? Vision drives income up; I doubt that money will generate vision.
Just last Sunday, my local church has, for the first time, presented a budget worked backwards from the vision of what we want to achieve this year. Usually we stopped at the usual prudent accountant-generated budget which is really just how we will continue to spend what comes in … if no one stretches themselves. So I’ve chosen to increase my giving to support the leadership’s stretch target.
If you believe that more of the member’s giving should go specifically to the local church, then get the leadership to give us a vision to support, and put a price tag on it. Then we have something to challenge us … regardless of whether the result is we increase our giving to the local church from 6 to 7% or 16 to 17%. Percentages are not it.
I loved Joe’s UPS delivery guy image too! You’re support to get back to the depot empty at the end of your shift.
I’ve never understood arguing against tithing. Is it a good idea to argue against giving something to God? Doesn’t seem like it to me.
I think the 10% is a great place to start, not stop.
I agree with Adam S that I should intelligently assess my local church’s need. What do they need to meet their current vision? Vision drives income up; I doubt that money will generate vision.
Just last Sunday, my local church has, for the first time, presented a budget worked backwards from the vision of what we want to achieve this year. Usually we stopped at the usual prudent accountant-generated budget which is really just how we will continue to spend what comes in … if no one stretches themselves. So I’ve chosen to increase my giving to support the leadership’s stretch target.
If you believe that more of the member’s giving should go specifically to the local church, then get the leadership to give us a vision to support, and put a price tag on it. Then we have something to challenge us … regardless of whether the result is we increase our giving to the local church from 6 to 7% or 16 to 17%. Percentages are not it.
I loved Joe’s UPS delivery guy image too! You’re supposed to get back to the depot empty at the end of your shift.
my mistake! i will move you! i like your blog! i got your link from ragamuffinsoul.
I’ve been responsible for the financial operations of a large, multi-site church for the last 5 years. I’ve spent part of the last 5 years following and trying to understand giving trends.
I can confirm from my experience that there simply is no other issue that causes as much anxiety in the hearts of people as the issue of money – and especially “how much of it is mine” versus “how much of it is God’s.” That is evidenced in part by the amount of passionate discussion in response to Anne’s rather benign post.
Surprisingly few people give substantially to support the ministries of their local churches. Church giving generally follows the 80/20 rule – 20 percent of the people provide 80 percent of the financial support. And in general, followers of Christ whom the world would define as “wealthy,” give away a far smaller percentage of their income than those whom the world would not define as wealthy – in general, they are the most generous of all.
The rubber meets the road in each believer’s heart. Scripture instructs us to give cheerfully, and to as we determine in our hearts (which should be in tune with the heart of God). If we could learn to do that, we wouldn’t be spending energy debating percentages, and the portion that we would keep for ourselves would be far less than 90%.
well, ma’am… just a visitor. found this page through deadly vipers… anywho. the topic.
my church for the past five years has been all over the city i live in, but was never at it’s most beautiful state than when we had eighty kids…i say kids loosely. we’re ranging from the age of seventeen to twenty-six-ish…hehe. so we have eighty kids packed into our “pastors” garage, overflowing into the driveway, kids sitting on tailgates, on the lawn. we were the church. we didn’t attend one. it was quite beautiful. i had the opportunity to share one night what had been revealed to me about the tithe…as i will now. hehe…don’t worry, it’s not some crazy new idea that i have unlocked, “devinci-code” status. just something i take into consideration with my tithe.
along with the test of faith in giving the first fruits to the lord, the tithe was entrusted to the levities for the upkeep of the temple and provision of the levities themselves, family needs, etc (ref. num. 18:22). we see the new testament “church,” the founders, collecting some tithes and sending it back and forth over the nations to care for each other, the body of believers, or “church” (ref. 1 cor. 16:1-3). all for ministering to each other. you see, the temple is no more. there are no levities. the temple is now, each other. the temple is the body of believers, for if we are christians, the christ indwells us, not behind the viel, in the holy of holies. you and i are now the holy of holies. sick, right!
i referenced 1 cor. 16:1-3, which states the “letters and gifts” will be taken to jerusalem. when i researched this, i learned, at this time of the letter written, there was a famine in the land of jerusalem. there was an obvious need in the church there for gifts, or the tithe. it is here that i decided that the tithe, amongst other “ministries” in the local, and global churches, should be allotted to those people in need. not just the bum on the street corner the widows and fatherless, though we know what true religion is (james 1:27), but the brother and sister who are in need.
one of the things i learned not just from the words implications here, but also through my pastor, was to take care of each other with the tithe. it’s in the word. bam. i remember many friends and families of attendees receiving some of the tithe, to get them through to the next month. serious stuff here. my buddies ma and grandma were given money to fly here from another country to avoid being murdered by the gangs that rule that land. a friend is a missionary in south korea from my “church.” he is supported. in reality he is from our church. this whole supercalifragilisticexpialidociously brutaly ginormous body of kids believing in the same god.
blah blah ack ack. i go on and on. all this to agree with most of the posts above. kudos susan. love that. i believe the tithe is something we all individually need to pray for, as there is so many avenues our eyes SEE it can go, but only the lord knows where best your tithe is suited to go. and sometimes it is a matter of handing it over to a laymen or pastor or disciple of christ that you trust. and in that act of faith, unknowing where that little bit will truly go, the tithe is honored and blessed. god is good. he works with our “visions” and “projects” and “launching of new series” all the time.
wisdom calls in the streets… i pray we are all listening
bur bur. kirkus
honestly, when I hear people say that tithing isn’t necessary, my first thought is…”tight-wad”
Tight wad! HAHA! Agreed…
I agree that tithes should go to the local church. Taking a friend out to dinner does not constitute a tithe.
I think we can all agree that tithes should come out of our first fruits as an act of worship to God.
But 10% is just not Biblical. If we were going to follow the OT tithing guidelines, then we should be giving 30% of our finances in three separate tithes. But in the end, in the NT we are commanded to give as we are lead as an act of love. Is 10% a good starting point? Sure. But it is not Biblical.
Tithing is necessary, it is commanded, it is an act of worship, it should be done with love, but there is no Biblical support for a 10% tithe.
But why not give and give more than 10%? Give happily!
Mike
Also, from the other post. It is not up to us to judge what the local church does with the money, but rather to give of a happy heart. God will judge them for what they do and us for what we do.
To those who believe that tithes should not go to pay pastors, etc – How do you explain the part of the OT tithe that went to support the Levites?
My main point – It is not up to us to judge what is done with the money. God will hold each believer accountable for his obedience in giving (and of course men for the obedience of their families in this situation). He will hold church leaders accountable for what happens to that money. It is not your place to with hold your money because you believe the church is not being a good steward. It is your responsibility to give and give cheerfully. If you truly have concerns, become involved in your church leadership.
Some of the posts here ring of people “worshiping” God by sitting at home on the couch Sunday and buying a new big screen TV.
But no one is forced to give. Those that are elect will give as an act of loving worship.
Mike
Nicely put, Mrs. Linch :)
Malachi 3:8-10. Nuff said.
it pays mine and your billz.
;)
If you’re “bothered” by giving your tithe to your church that you are a member of; then you are under conviction. It doesn’t matter if the church has 10 members or 10,000, Mal. 3:10 says plain and simple 10 percent of your income belongs to God to the church where you belong. ….from where I sit, and God has given me a blessed ministry with women, (to His honor and glory) I find that when their hubby says write the tithe check, it stirs up an argument. That’s so sad because they are missing out on the greatest joy and blessings by not giving 10% of their income.
Okay, Anne, this might be the MCD has it’s very beginning…temperatures rise, a spirit of “I’m mad about tithing” begins. Just say yes, give 10% and more. You cannot outgive God! When my husband gets paid, the first check that comes out is tithing. No if, ands or buts added. God abundantly blesses, more than we could ever ask or think!
There are so many things from the old Testament that we don’t do and I know some were rules and some were principles, sure but why is Tithing the only one that is an issue and most of the others we never even think of doing. Evidently some pastors are worried about getting paid.
Anyway, everything we own including money, time, resources and so on, belongs to God already so if we are supposed to be worshipping God in everything we do then it is all going to Him in some way, shape, or form. Everything we do is an act of worship, at least that’s what our pastor was trying to tell us so whether our worship is in church on sunday or in church monday through saturday, it’s all His whether it’s in an envelope marked tithe or given to missionary’s or given in time spent serving Him or whatever.
The comment by Derek is basically the most biblically accurate one. Here’s is some detail about tithing that most will never hear:
None of the ‘tithing’ that occurs now has any connection to the definition of tithing contained in the Bible. (other than to mention 10%)??. In a nutshell, the were three tithes from SOME of the Israelites and a 4th from the Levites to the Levite priests.
1)The Levitical tithe required those who raised crops (not everyone and not all professions – just those who raised crops) to give 10% of that to the Levites. This tithe only occurred 6 years out of the 7 year cycle. It also required those that raised 10 or more animals to give each tenth animal that passed under the rod to the Levites. If a person raised less than 10 animals, they were NOT required to tithe.
2) From what was given to them, the Levites in turn had to give a tenth of the very best to the priests.
3) The festival tithe required that those who raised crops or animals to set aside 10% for the annual festivals. It was for the people to have a party and consume the food joyfully and alcoholic beverages (strong drink) if they wanted.
4) The Poor tithe occurred only in the 3rd and 6th years of the seven year cycle. This was set aside FOR the poor. ??
All tithes were always food and NEVER money.???
I go into more detail on my website http://www.inyourbible.com, where, if you have a high speed internet connection, you can view or download my FREE series of 10 – 30 minute lessons titled “The Truth About Tithing”.?
?I take two of the lessons to explain the ‘Truth About Abrams Tithe’. It clearly is NOT the precedent setting example that we have been told. For starters, Abram did not give his own money.??
We should be generous but the poor widow is NOT our example. She was being plundered by church leaders. ?(Video – Truth About the Widow’s Gift)
There is no single formula for Christians to be able to judge for themselves whether they are generous or not.
Each person needs to hear from God for themselves.
It was stated earlier in someone else’s post that tithing is a principle. It is not. The principle is the purpose behind tithing and that purpose was to take care of the poor, orphans, and widows. Yes, it was for the Levites also but what we see demonstrated in the New Testament is that care for those that preach should be based on whether or not they are in need as opposed to just giving them money because of the service they provide.
inyourbible
I just wanna comment on Adam S’s post above, “I don’t give to my local church because they don’t need it” … and the part about going to budget meetings and seeing they have “an abundance”.
Maybe I’m being too judgmental, and I’m certainly not qualified to comment on that church’s situation, but my gut response is that any church who consistently runs an “abundance” isn’t stewarding what they have very well. If they have “abundance”, and it’s just sitting in the church money market, earning interest … I’d love to see a real visionary get a’hold of that place. How many Compassion kids would love hearing that the church has “an abundance”?
Sorry, couldn’t resist!
Fred
Wow!
I don’t have time to read through all the comments right now, but I’m looking forward to it…
I don’t know how you do this, Anne. I ask questions like this on my blog, and I get like 2 people respond…
Maybe if I write a book and go to work for a cool church, then people will come look :0)
I would like to throw in my two cents… or really ask a question:
Basically, what’s the balance between tithing and debt? For example, my wife and I are on a very, very tight budget, and the past three months have KILLED us. We’ve put like 3 grand on the credit card to keep rolling.
Is it more responsible for us to put some unexpected expense, like a doctor bill, on a credit card so that we can tithe, or should we pay our debts, and tithe when the money’s there?
I have some thoughts, I know this really boils down to the guidance of the Holy Spirit, but I’d like to know people’s thoughts…
The bottom line for me is that people who don’t believe in Tithing usually struggle financially WAY more then tithers do. Tithe everything, time, money, things, and give more then you think you can, and God DOES bless it. I know, I have lived both thoughts and God has shown Himself true to his word.
I’m with Fred on the church in abundance issue. I’ve worked in churches and have lots of friends who do, and I’ve yet to come across a church that’s saying, “man, we have more than enough money.”
As far as people giving to vision…I agree. People will be more likely to give to a great vision. But if giving is really about our worship as everyone is saying, then for a mature Christ-follower it shouldn’t be tied only to vision. If you can’t give to the vision, maybe you should find a local body that has vision you can get behind. Or maybe you should give regardless of if you think the church or vision needs it, because it has more to do with what God desires than what the organization needs.
To answer the question above about what OT principals we follow and which we do not, it is really rather easy. The ceremonial laws of the OT we are no longer required to follow, since they were about cleanliness and we are permanently clean because of the blood of Christ. All others (the moral laws) we are still required to follow.
At any rate, some churches appear to run in abundance when they actually do not. They could always use more money for missions, etc.
As far as tithing and debt, that is a very valid issue. I know I am sure you should not put yourself into more debt in order to tithe. I also know this is a touch subject and I know nothing about your particular situation, but I know a few people who have made this complaint in the past and when I looked at their situation, they lived in a really nice house/apartment, or had two new cars, or cable TV, or high speed internet, etc. Perhaps the key is to cut back on expenses so that you will be able to pay your debt and still tithe? Or perhaps getting a second job to pay off the debt? Although I also know that there are situations like my girlfriend, who has no expenses to cut. She wishes to give, but there really is just no fat to trim. So she is concentrating on getting out of debt. Only you know your situation. But if it is just not wishing to give up some consumption (selling a car, getting used cars, moving into a cheaper house/apt, trimming the fat like cable, cell phones, etc).
Mike
PS I am on government disability and I still tithe at least 10%, I recognize I have been blessed and there are those even worse off than I am. I am not trying to brag, but just to show that it is possible, even with very limited means to tithe.
Response to inyourbible:
Actually, most everyone’s response here so far has been Biblical.
The Law was meant to show us two things (tithing included):
1. He is God.
2. We are not.
Money also shows us two things (tithing included):
1. He is God.
2. Money is not.
Although your exposition is well done – it is flawed in the sense that you seem to be reading everything with a “I-don’t-have-to-tithe” lense. I think you could be a little more objective in your theoligical conclusions – especially if you strive to live by the greatest two commandments.
It’s amazing what could be accomplished in God’s Kingdom if the ambassadors weren’t so preoccupied and stingy.
d rho… i like you.
D rho,
The flaw you cite in my exposition is not what I presented but rather your interpretation of my exposition. I maintain that the proper interpretation of my exposition would be to study those things (that you never hear presented in church) for yourself and come to your own conclusion. Everything I said about the OT tithe is true and I have scripture to prove it. I don’t want to fight about it. I just present data and it’s up to listeners to accept it or reject it. Amen.
well, plain as day scripture says a tenth of our income belongs to the Lord. whether that is to the church, a child sponsorship program, digging a well, etc. – if is given joyfully and to the Glory of God, then i think that’s obedience.
Tithing is a funny thing, actually it is the only thing God says test Him in Malachi 3 – but the bible says to make sure Gods storehouse is full first .. so what’s a storehouse? Although in new testament the apostles are living in community sharing everything – so isn’t that the storehouse and the Church.
Paul said give out of your heart otherwise don’t give at all… I think more than anything it is the one place where we can show we are acting in trust of God. Read Malachi 3:9 I think it is.
Thing is some will say that is old covenant…and we are no longer obligated to give. Though I still love the concept of Church being where two or three are gathered – In the the old testament God said there is a special blessing for those who care for the orphaned, widowed and stranger so should we give where the greater need is?
The tenth is all about the jot and tittle of the law.
In Christ it’s 100%. WE are in the offering plates. Our whole lives. A fragrant offering.
I did a glance at the post about tithing. It seems that some are hitting all over the place. If one where to go and do a study of the Old Testament law of tithing, you would see that it adds up to a lot higher than 10%, some would say more like 35% of your “income.” (Granted, the society back than was based on agriculture rather than currency.) Using 10% as a guideline is a nice thing to do, but along with all the verses that have been said about giving with a joyful heart and it being an act of worship, etc. I like Paul’s words about the Macedonian churches in 2 Cor. 8.
“And now, brothers, we want you to know about the grace that God has given the Macedonian churches. Out of the most severe trial, their overflowing joy and their extreme poverty welled up in rich generosity. For I testify that they gave as much as they were able, and even beyond their ability. Entirely on their own, they urgently pleaded with us for the privilege of sharing in this service to the saints.”
The bottom line is this, “beyond their ability.” Do we do that? We are also not the “muzzle the ox.” Give to the church, and give generously is the biblical model.
Wow.
I wont even begin to touch on the bilical definition of tithing, or how much to give…I think that’s all covered above.
I do think that because The Church is so connected in many ways(blogs, websites,charity innitiatives,missionaries….) it’s harder to define now than it was “way back when”.
Nowadays you can give money to a missionary in India, sponsor a child in Africa, buy a burger for someone on the corner, drop a bill in the basket, help out a family at your church who is struggling…and it all glorifies God, and is used to further His Kingdom.
I think WHERE it goes is a personal choice..but the point is that it GOES out somewhere.
I was thinking about a post someone posted (I keep looking, but I can’t find it). Anyway, somebody said something negative about their tithe going toward their pastor buying a new truck. This kind of ticks me off!! I mean, I think a pastor should receive a reasonable salary decided on by the body, but after that, it’s the pastor’s (and pastor’s family’s) choice to spend their money any way they want to! The congregation has no right to control how the pastor spends his own salary. At my church, some generous people DONATED very nice, new cars to some of our pastors. My point is: how do you know how that pastor got the car/truck? Maybe someone GAVE it to them! Maybe they have been saving for ten years to buy it! I find the post quite judgmental, I must say.