when ted haggard’s story first came out, i wrote this post. tuesday, i saw him on CNN.? yesterday, i saw him, his wife, and two of his kids on oprah.
the way he addressed his issues was more raw and honest than i expected.? the love his wife showed him, and the way his kids talked about him, was nothing short of phenomenal grace.
something he said made me mad though. really mad.? although, it didn’t really surprise me.
he had confessed his same-sex attraction to his wife early in their marriage.? he was abused by an adult male when he was really young, and that jacked him up.? that was the trauma.
a few years before he began acting out on his attraction, he went to some leaders and pastors he knew. he said he was wrestling with these thoughts even more and needed their advice.? some withdrew. others told him to keep his mind off of it by working harder for god.
after that, he confessed he didn’t know what to do with the struggle anymore.? he desperately wanted them to be gone, and he felt like he needed to hold up the “ideal” of a perfect husband, perfect father, perfect pastor.? he made the decisions to not talk, and to act out – but it goes back to show that so many times we feel like we can’t discuss our brokenness with other believers…
that.
breaks.
my.
heart.
we all can choose to talk about our problems, absolutely. and nobody can be responsible for making that decision but us.? the environments that the “church” has created, however, tells us something different. it creates an environment where we feel like we need to have everything figured out, or else we’ll face judgment, ridicule, and isolation.
that just ain’t right.
we’ve got to create environments of honesty.
and we have to lead the way.
Comments
72 responses to “scandalous”
Only when we lose everything are we free to do anything.
Amen, sister. I watched it too (and on Nightline last night) and really, it just made me both sad and mad. The destruction of sin is far-reaching. But confession and grace has the power to redeem all.
I was talking with one of my teens recently and this teen admitted that even though they are totally sold out to God, they would rather befriend non-believers because he feels like it’s more “real.” I started asking myself, “How did we get here? How did we create this culture where appearances matter more than honesty?”
Love your thoughts on this. I completely agree that the church, especially leadership, needs to be more compassionate with it’s own circle. The church preaches and teaches compassion to the world and the lost, but when it comes to it’s own leadership, it doesn’t know what to do.
It’s disturbing that Haggard was able to build such a large following and ministry, yet couldn’t find the help he needed among his peers to help with this issue. I’ve had friends that approached the church for counseling for certain issues and the solution offered was “pray more” and “trust God”. That sounds great, but as human beings we need “real” help and “counsel”, not churchy catch phrases.
Churches need to be equipped with experienced leadership and counselors that can offer “real” help. Too many churches put people in leadership positions based on their “spirituality” and “faithfulness” to the church. These people might be great for volunteer positions or group leaders, but definitely not equipped to offer “real” counsel.
God bless Haggard and the healing process he’s still going through.
I pastor a unique community in Birmingham trying to model this and I wish I could say it was easy. It’s easy for us on the inside, but we take tremendous fire from those that have taken up sniper posts in their pulpits.
We have some modern day lepers – the only group left that even the politically correct can hate – the pedophiles. Often, I’ll get calls from other pastors reading me the riot act and shouting that “those people” should not be allowed in church. I have handled those calls well, and not so well, depending upon the day. Most of the time, my response is as follows – “Do you suffer under the illusion that you don’t have any pedophiles in your church? We know who ours are and where they sit, and we love them. Yours are probably working in the nursery because you get so desperate for a volunteer on a Sunday that you’ll take a pulse. They may not have been caught yet, but they are there, trust me.”
I can, however be guilty of depriving them of grace and mercy too. It is so difficult, but this culture has to change. Jesus calls on us to die. From what I’ve seen of the interviews so far, Ted Haggard has done just that – he died to his ego by being transparent.
New Life Church on the other hand, entered an agreement to pay the other young man that came forward $179,000 if he would not go public. Then they had the gall to say it was not hush money, but “compassionate assistance.” Then they neglected to pay the money thinking that the young man would not come forward for fear of being labeled gay. He came forward this week, and they attacked his motive rather than confess their own sin in this.
Our churches are too clean looking – not enough wounded people walking around. Not enough blood on the floor – our own, or that of Jesus. It’s heartbreaking.
It isn’t just the church the creates the environment that causes us to bottle our feelings up. Sometimes it is created in our own homes and by our own families. If you can’t talk openly about your feelings, where do you turn? Some of us turn to the church. Some of us turn to drugs and alcohol before we turn to God. Some of turn to counseling. Some of us blog. Some of us do all of these.
I agree. It’s so sad that some churches have created “perfect” little communities instead of real ones.
i truly hope that he experiences the sweet redemption that comes from godly sorrow, and that his family comes to a place of Spirit-fueled healing.
everything else is a distant second…
Excellent post Anne! I watched a bit of Haggard’s interview with Oprah and I was VERY impressed with his honesty and transparency. Hopefully, his courage will inspire others to break free from their “secret” struggles!
so what do you do when no one will listen?
A conversation began at the cross and was quickly silenced by ecclesiastical fear.
http://judahslion.blogspot.com/2008/04/inconvenient-truth-matt.html
http://judahslion.blogspot.com/2009/01/grace-for-gays-t-onight-as-i-watched.html
@Tal Prince
“Our churches are too clean looking – not enough wounded people walking around. Not enough blood on the floor – our own, or that of Jesus. It?s heartbreaking.”
Wow. I love your ministry. I love your passion and I really loved your answer to the hoity-toity ones.
Anne, I praise God that I have you in my life. Your eyes, your heart to go beyond the norm challenges me every single day. God through you won’t let me be comfy where I am. (Dangit)
As for acceptance… I’m not sure that I could confess something like that in my church — no wait. Yeah. I could. I might be asked to step out of leadership for a season, but they’ve already committed the cardinal sin of letting a divorced woman hold a seat of leadership (me), but I would be just as loved.
Recently the pastor in one of his sermons asked how many had been in jail before. The number of hands was astounding. And the thing is, no one cares. A lady who we went to the jail to minister to has received healing of drug addiction and the need to prostitute herself — through loving acceptance of the people there. We’re not perfect, but we’re learning.
Thanks Anne.
Anne, your thoughts always challenge me. Less than 3 years ago, I was steeped in extreme Right-wing Fundamentalism (I graduated from Bob Jones Univ, if that’s any clue as to just how “Right-ist” I was).
But your blog has contributed to refocusing and shifting the way I look at life and others around me.
Thanks so much!
Amen! I couldn’t agree w/ you more.
two ? come to my mind? well, maybe 3
1)should an active, outside of his marriage sex seeking leader remain a leader?
2)does giving grace extend to the length of always allowing the person receiving grace to amintain his/her position
3) was he really, really honest about it? that answer is absolutely not
in this case only, not a general rule, his church paid hush money to one guy and obviously gave him grace and another chance – and then he did it again, in secret
me thinks this kinda blows the trust issue out of the window
in general, we do shoot our wounded many times and that’s just wrong but i think in this particular case the church was most gracious on offense #1 and took the correct action in case #2. i also think he’s found a way to make a lot of money off this, oprah pays a pretty nice mint to be on her show, then there’s the books and movies that will follow. i honestly believe he’s playing this up a bit
1) i dont think he i active seeker
2) no, but it means loving them
3) he could be now. i dont know him. do you?
he didn’t do it again. that guy was from 2006, before the confession.
I’ve watched numerous Pastors surround themselves with,
a) Yes People.
b) Powerful movers and shakers.
I don’t know, maybe thats the kind of people TH surrounded himself with but an unwillingness to let people in early on who aren’t afraid to hit you with serious scrutiny will come back to bite you. The funny thing is Jesus (who needs no scrutiny) surrounded himself mostly with “the least of these”. I know that is not the case in far too many situations today. You’ve mentioned before about churches wooing, wining and dining the beautiful and the powerful. Well, you get too much of that around you, you have people who are accustomed to smooth sailing… they know deep down why you’ve entrusted them and when trouble comes they probably will bail.
TH constructed the mechanism that he believes failed him. And it happens in almost every evangelical church today. It’s about the Spiritual Gifts. Churches are cults of personalities that orbit around MEN. The gift of pastoring is elevated and others, like the prophets are virtually shut out. And we wonder why the Church keeps getting stained.
I’ve learned today that there is just no talking negative about church to those who get paid to do church. Church to these people, is everything, and they simply become blinded by what really goes on. In my earlier post, the one that must be deleted, I said until business is no longer what church is about, the church will continue to stumble. Get the money out, and you will find those who truly believe in the message, and truly live it out. How do you close down a business? Stop buying what they are selling. In the case of church, stop tithing your money. Let’s return the message to it’s basic level, taking out all the bells and whistles, and speak of the wonderful gift we were given in Jesus Christ.
The isolation is the problem for me. I have no problem with being honest but I have begun to wonder if that is what scares people away. I have been in churches that I believe are fairly authentic but still had no one who truly understood me. Whenever I begin to open up about my ‘issues’, people just seem to melt away. I have nearly given up trying to find a place to belong, which is very sad. I don’t want to become bitter & I so want to find a place to belong. I even hesitate to post this comment because of the fear of rejection of the cyber-world. Ridiculous, isn’t it?
I think we’ve come to a place in our society with the church being a highlighted focus because as the divide between moral and immoral grows ever more faint into the gray area, thats what I like to call it….even more will the spotlight be on churches because we have tended to not deal with the gray….we have said Black or White this is how it is, how it should be handled and how it should be addressed, never leaving the opportunity to truly understand the issues of TODAY.
Unfortunately, our churches have treated society like “it” is the only problem. The Church is also part of a society that influences reactions, thoughts and biases. With the refusal to understand the society better, it has sheltered the church in an unhealthy way that so often leads to a deeper inner destruction and a US vs. THEM mentality.
I like this verse: Jer 23:24 (NIV) “Can anyone hide in the secret places so that I cannot see him?” declares the Lord. “Do I not fill heaven and earth?” declares the Lord.
God is really cool. Such a simple, Americanized statement, but He really is. I mean, he declares it right there. So, why are we hiding, Church??? Why are we not more observant like the Lord? He says, nothing hides from him and I believe he doesn’t want people to hide it, he wants the Church to be a family that addresses the problems of our sin-tending nature in a way that draws others closer to him, not farther from the truth. The truth is: God loves you! John 8:32 “Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
Tim, I did not delete your comment because of your comments about the church. I deleted them because of your commentary about Haggard. It was unfounded and slanderous, and I do not tolerate personal attacks on my blog.
There is so much, I guess it should be called self depreciation within the Church. Sure, there are people in the church that don’t love the unlovely, forgive others like Ted Haggard or anyone else. The Church will always be hypocritical. And there will always be people quick to throw the Church under the bus to earn favor with the World.
I don’t think TH’s problem was people not loving him, not forgiving him and not taking him back in. I think the problem was people not doing all of the above with the addition of paying him over 6 figures a year. Thus the current capitilization on something that, because he is forgiven, should be in the past.
Love the idea of “environments of honesty.” But every time I try and imagine what that looks like, I can’t come up with a reproducible environment. Capturing the conditions of the moment when you feel safe and comfortable enough to confess your sins to one another and receive love and grace is like capturing lightning in a bottle.
Maybe the issue is not so much creating environments of honesty as perhaps carriers of honesty and vulnerability. At NewSpring Church, I’m most grateful that our pastor, Perry Noble, is constantly drawing attention to the fact that he is an ordinary man who struggles with sin like everyone else. It makes a huge difference. And I believe, it gets integrated by the membership at large. And it’s what makes us such a welcoming church where there are “no perfect people allowed.”
There is a class of people that are wounded deeply, and that is men that are the victims of verying types of homesexual assualt. Ted Haggard did not go into details, but I will.
Two men in my family where homosexually attacked, one of them committed suicide. Nobody wanted to really deal with this, our pastor only talked with him once. He was a broken person after this whole ordeal. It infected his soul, he was never the same. He fell into the world of drugs and alchol, and carried a gun because of his ever present fear of another assault.
Could the whole thing have been avoided if the Church would have treated Ted Haggart as a wounded soul in need of healing and restoration? Why does it seem that certain types of evil are worse than others? Why does it seem that we only love certain kinds of peopIe? Why is it when a little girl is raped, she is protected and cared for, but when that happens to little boys, well, it is sort of forgotten about?
I would also like to address an earlier comment about pedofiles in our churches. These are people that need redemption too–I am not advocating that we allow them into an area of ministry that would be a temptation for them either. However, they need Gods love, and I am sure at the root of their evil is some form of assault inflicted upon them while they too were a child. We have to be the tools God uses to break this chain of abuse and violence.
A friend of mine that is a Crisis Intervention counselor told me last night when we were talking about this interview said that the greatest source of organized crimes against children in our community come from people that are teachers or are in ministry. Yes, people that we have allowed into positions of trust. When the Bible says Satan is a roaring lion seeking to devour, it was not kidding. We have to stop turning a blind eye to the wounded that are all around us.
Father God, I pray for us to all have eyes that can see pain like Jesus does, even the kind that is not popular or fashionable–the ugly kind that slowly kills a heart and robs a life of the joy it was meant to have. Help us to love like you Jesus and be your heart and hands reaching out to the walking wounded amoung us. Help us to see the chasam between the person and the sin or wound and how your love can break those chains of bondage. Raise up your church to take on the Gates of Hell head on, and do so boldly.
Amen
I just watched Ted, his wife, and his oldest son on Larry King. I pray many people who do know Christ will be moved at the redemptive miracle of the Haggard family that is only possible through the loving restoration of our Savior. He dodged nothing and openly admitted to everything, and his wife is a remarkable example of what a Christian should be. I pray God will use him in spite of so many believers that continue to cooperate with the Accuser instead of the Intercessor.
Haggard’s story is a tragic miracle…kinda like all of us.
Anne
This is why I read your blog, because it is honest, and open. Everything that I cannot be at my church. There, nobody knows I struggle with depression (or it could be menopausal) perfectionism, that I struggle with grace for myself.
It is because of the gossip, inuendos, etc that I would hear.
So, I dont say anything there.
Fortunately, I have a great counselor who is a ear and voice of grace in my life.
Because of some complicated family issues, we can’t leave right now, but have started attending another church on Saturday nights where grace and love is abundant and I long for the day I can make it my home.
Thanks for the honesty.
Many Churches are in love with influence and very, very confused about repentance.
Ted isn’t healing, he’s dealing. An HBO special, Oprah, night line ?
He should have just done a series on sex to begin with and maybe Steven Colbert would
have given him a spot.
All this hand wringing about forgiveness, but we touch very lightly on Godly sorrow. The Church needs to be broken before God, maybe this can be a start.
Pardon the brain dump if it appears random…
1. Been there, done that, sort of. I’ll just say I’ve lived some pretty spectacular, documented failure of my own. And I DID find a redemptive (actually megachurch) community, who believed in healing and restoration, and I’m in ministry and greatly blessed today due in no small part to them.
2. HOWEVER, it was nowhere near the people I had wounded, and realistically wouldn’t have happened there.
3. I honestly believe many people want to be gracious, but don’t want to compromise their morals or biblical standards to do so. Moreover THEY DON’T KNOW HOW because people like me (pastors) have often not taught them.
4. Someone mentioned money earlier, and that’s the dirty-damned truth. The fear comes from the money. What if people bail in mass because of the king’s failure? What if my attempts at transparency and authenticity about my struggles lead to my swift unemployment? What if it would financially hurt the good people in my church who are innocent victims of all this, or would convince the unchurched that “authentic” people are hypocrites like the rest of them?
5. The mega-reality is that this is big business (money), intoxicating pleasure (sex, etc.) and pride on a cosmic scale. And if that sounds like we’re using 1 john 2:16 as our standards of success, there’s a reason.
6. All that said, nobody ever solved a problem in the church by criticizing it. The church isn’t a “thing”, friends, it’s us. And when the bell tolls for “the church,” it’s tolling for thee.
The enemy has a field-day with this secrecy in the Church. I am a recovering addict and I can remember being at Church Sunday after Sunday looking around at the other men thinking that they had it all together and feeling more and more shame for my own sin and brokenness. It is time for the Church to start connecting at our weaknesses rather than spending so much time impressing each other with our strengths. Grace wasn’t amazing to me when I had convinced myself and others that I had it all together. When my reputation came crashing down around me and my secret was revealed, I experienced that the Gospel is true…God loves me just as I am.
Anne,
Can’t you start a church for all us admited screw ups??? hehehe
Bless you!!
Bernadette
Anne – thank you to you and your readers for always pushing me to new places in how I deal with myself, my family, my teams, my staff (working outside the church), my friends…everyone really. Be blessed, and I hope the book is a big success…anxiously awaiting its arrival in Australia (next week I think?).
Wow, I hope people learn from this. It’s great to know the background to his story actually.
Hey Anne – read your blog all the time and appreciate you.
I agree with you about the church – but I believe Ted Haggard should have searched much harder and much longer for someone to help him. Having been someone who has been in a situation where I felt like I wasn’t getting the help I needed with some grief I was dealing with – and knowing that if I didn’t get someone to help me with it that I would waste away to nothing – I did everything I could to find an advocate for myself when I knew I was too weak too fight for myself – and God provided one for me.
So, Ted’s “I told some people and they freaked out or didn’t want to deal with it” claim…it does nothing for me. He should have fought harder…and if he couldn’t fight for himself, he should have found someone to fight for him.
anne – he did it twice, it’s well documented. the first one was this ‘new’ revelation and the second was when he got busted with the male hooker
so, yes, I do know
Great thoughts on a poignant post. I’m troubled by some of the thoughts that have the “I agree… but” feel to them. Grace is grace. To be church is to love one another and hope for and pray for and work for the best for each other. God expresses his best hopes for us in Jesus and we are called to do the same for each other… there should be no “but”. Thanks Anne.
Anne,
I love your blog re: Ted Haggard.
I can only speak for myself. We’ve been 39 years in the ministry as Senior Pastor. (total of 3 churches) – this church we have been here 7 years and this is the ONLY church that I have been honest about being molested by my Dad for all of my childhood until age 18 when I left home for College. In comparison, attendance wise in the ladies class I teach, I feel, after they heard my “flaw” it has worked somewhat against me beause they (I feel) have looked at me as “our poor Pastor’s Wife;” so now we don’t have any issues…..’scuse the bluntness….do I still love them.?..you bet I do. Did I really feel like a “victim, ” most definitely. But, like I say in comparison, the other two churches where I was perfect in every sense, so to speak, keeping my real flaws to myself, there was growth, women sharing deep, wounded issues —- so I saw Ted and his lovely wife on Good Morning America and I felt led to write her and him a note and say “I understand and love you for being so public.” To me, that has kept the bitterness I struggle with to a bare minimum. And of course, I had to face my Dad and forgive him. I guess I can say in conclusion the ladies in our church want me to be flawless, but trust me reading your blogs, etc. has kept me transparent and I love living like that and really helping the women who want help! I have “passed through the terrible waters” and have come out victorious on the other side seeing that there are tons of others who have been through the same waters! And His grace is sufficient!
This entire discussion is fantastic in that it exposes the fact that so much of today’s Christianity has been reduced to behavioralism and moralism. We have subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) teaching in our Churches today that our sanctification is completely up to us because God did his work at the cross. I even passed a Church sign once that said “God has done His part…the rest is up to you.” How tragic! This view of God and His grace is inaccurate and unbiblical and it leads us into what our flesh is already pretty good at…being legalistic Pharisees.
I lived for 30 years as a behaviorlist with a perfect persona and it will flat wear you out. I saw God’s grace as being only for “lost” people. At salvation, God did His work of grace in me as a free gift and I was subtly taught that living the Christian life was my “thank you” to God for saving me. It was as if God crossed His arms after my conversion and spent all of His time watching how I behaved or did not behave. This is a lonely existence.
Because the Gospel is true and because it is true that God loves us as we are, we can be open and honest and transparent about our issues rather than spending so much time and energy trying to cover up our weakness or our struggles. We all are in desperate need of a Savior no matter how long we have been saved. How different our Christian paradigm would be if we saw other believers as fellow strugglers desperate for Christ? It would deepen our community as we connect with each other’s weaknesses and we would not be surprised by what a fellow believer might share with us. The masks we wear and the efforts that we go to in order to hide our flaws and our sin becomes such a tool for the Enemy to further isolate us as believers.
Consider this…the Body of Christ today has a tough time ministering to itself because so many parts of the body are sending the “everything is great and wonderful” signal rather than telling the truth. As a result, those parts of the Body are being isolated which further complicates the issue.
Dear Jesus, forgive us that we struggle so to believe that You love us just as we are and help Your body be truly transparent for each other and the world so that all might see how truly amazing your grace is.
Reflections of a Ragamuffin
http://www.traylorlovvorn.com
So Ted Haggard hasn’t been forgiven and well loved until he gets his 6 figure salary and church paid for McMansion back ?
That seems to be what the issue is. As the previous poster stated, this is dealing not healing. The church will always be full of hypocrisy as long as it’s full of sinners, which it is. In a broken world there is forgiveness and grace… but there are also consequences.
my dearest friends and i had a long heart-to-heart about this very problem which plagues community. thank you for such wise words which echo that!
Amen sistah.
ted and gayle have really inspired me this week. it is amazing to me how God is working here in brokeness and failure. its a beautiful thing. mike.
“The church will always be full of hypocrisy as long as it?s full of sinners, which it is. In a broken world there is forgiveness and grace? but there are also consequences.”
The greatest hypocrites among us, are we who receive grace but demand consequences in others. My deserved consequences were taken at Calvary, and we should never relish the consequences of others, but rush to bind up wounds, even if self inflicted. The body of Christ should be, must be, so different than this fallen world that the forgiveness and restoration we project will be considered absurd and illogical and even the outright condoning of sin.
We cannot afford the luxury of mirroring the redemption of this world in which we live, their’s is safe and measured and many times with questionable motivations. But we must rise upon the wings of a higher calling, a calling from an invisible kingdom emanating from the Creator King. It is in the midst of opportunities like the Haggard situation that Jesus desires to make Himself known to the world through those who bear His name.
Let us acquiesce to His desire…joyfully.
I actually think this post highlights a different issue. While I’m sure there are many churches who choose the option of keeping some sins secret, I think this is really an example of the Church not making an effort to find a credible response to homosexuality. We’ve painted ourselves into a black and white corner, where Christians can not be gay. Then, when confronted with a gay believer, we just have no answer, so we ignore or change the subject. We’re completely unprepared, uneducated, and ignorant of changing perceptions. And really, it’s as if we don’t even care. Except we recognize that our views make us look bad, and we care about that, but just don’t know what to do about it.
The issue isn’t going away, and we harm the cause of Christ by passively clinging to outdated and cliche soundbites about hating sin but loving those gay sinners. To be clear: I’m not advocating acceptance. But the Church needs to be proactive in finding and taking a stand on this issue – one that’s intelligent, biblical, clear, realistic, and most of all – compassionate.
Rick
What straw man relishes in Ted Haggard’s consequences? We are all sinners and we all need grace, blasting people (and creating straw men) who were left confused and bewildered by a scandal isn’t exactly grace giving and forgiving either.
Lost in this equation is the reality that MANY people in the Church do not know Jesus Christ. Add to that the discipleship of young believers gets lost in the shuffle in a crowd of 13,000 (the size of Haggard’s church**). Add to that those in his inner circle had probably become financially dependent (jobs) on the church. As is the case with so many mega churches you get the veneer of prosperous health hiding a gooey
middle that is dysfunctional, a cult of personality.
* note the phrase “Haggard’s Church”. It’s wrongly possessive and it is epidemic in the American Church. Substitute Steve’s, Joe’s, Jim’s on street corners all over America. When pastors are elevated, allow themselves to be elevated, or even elevate themselves to such absurd heights they get alienated from the Body. I suspect this is what happened to Haggard, he had gotten to the place where he had no peers.
But he did get counselling from ministers back in 2006. I knew James Dobson was going to counsel him, too, but when I googled “haggard counselling” I found out that he withdrew, because he couldn’t devote the time Ted would need. But the other ministers were still involved. There’s also the AP article from Feb ’07 where he announced he was completely heterosexual. So why is he now on the media “circuit”, almost 2 years after he announced he was cured? I think jud nailed it – it’s about him and his book deal to get money, not about promoting healing.
I am so glad we all know Ted so well.
We are only as sick as our secrets.
– AA
I just watched part of the Larry King interview with him that I recorded. I’ll catch the second half later. I was also happy about the place of humility and vulnerability he has been brought to. God will use that man as long as he stays in the place of humility. He can reach people right now that he never would have been able to before…because he is now imperfect and damaged….just like the rest of us!
” I think jud nailed it – it?s about him and his book deal to get money, not about promoting healing.”
I wish I had the updated “look into his heart” 3-D glasses. If you are observing that just possibly Haggard might still be imperfect, I would suggest that is a safe observation based upon a universal revelation about all of us. Book deal or not, he revealed some things that were extremely uncomfortable and embarrasing, some of which he could have kept secret.
The various Christian “camps” are so fleshly and so partisan, if it were John Piper in the same situation on Larry King many who still condemn Haggard might laud Piper as a template of honest repentance.
Funny how that works.
Condemned Ted Haggard? Who has condemned Ted Haggard? Yet another straw man.
We live in an age where more people make a living off of Christianity than ever before. The observation that Haggard is setting himself up to reap a living off of the scandal is not condemnation. Please!
I think of it more as an opinion than an observation.
What’s most interesting to me about many of the comments is that they, like most of us, aren’t really comfortable talking about the Gospel.
We are far more comfortable talking about our opinions of Haggard’s motives, but Anne’s point was that when he reached out for help before it all got going, no one was willing to offer any. This is a failure on the Church’s part – not just New Life, but the others he contacted outside of New Life, as was his practice. His personal accountability structure was outside the church and in my conversation with one of his former accountability partners, he admitted that they didn’t know what to do or say. Their encouragement was to spend more time and work harder at the church.
There is the fundamental flaw – works based righteousness. A treadmill gospel, which is an impotent imitation of the Gospel of Christ. Just work harder?
Sadly, churches contact me only after it is too late, and all they want to really do is have a group therapy session wherein they spew judgments and refuse to accept any responsibility.
The Gospel says Haggard has the righteousness of Christ. The Gospel says Haggard is a child of the King. The Gospel says that Haggard’s sin is hidden in Christ. The Gospel says let us work on the plank in our own eyes. The Gospel says there is no point scale for sin.
Judging people is, in the eyes of God, just as evil as sexual sin. Jesus saved this attitude for the black robed Pharisees, not the one caught in their sin. To them he showed remarkable compassion and mercy. He, while truly knowing their motives, never mentioned them.
People in North America are not coming to faith in Christ – not because they haven’t heard about Jesus – but because they are waiting to see the people of God live like Christ.
It’s much harder to discuss the Gospel implications here, isn’t it? But that’s why we all suck so badly, and why we need Jesus so much.
Focus the discussion on the Cross of Christ, and everything looks so much different.
That Jesus still loves a guy in Haggard’s position ought to be far more inspiring to us all.
I could not agree with you more. We are so imperfect as human beings, it is so nice to see a community that is not afraid to open up and share what is real in their lives.
I don’t necessarily think that the answers like pray more or trust more are actually churchy pad answers. I think it’s just the best we can come up with sometimes. And sometimes it is that we don’t care to be bothered by a brother or sister in need/sin.
I would like to pose a question if I may. I was a worship/arts pastor a few years ago and one of my vocalists got into trouble by cheating on her husband one night because he was unfaithful to her. She openly admitted she sinned. I was instructed by the executive staff to inform her she could not be on the worship team until after a time of counseling and restoration. Being a worship pastor I was ill equipped to counsel in this area. The lead pastor refused to see her and her husband would not come with her for any counseling. She was heartbroken. My wife and I talked to her a couple times but just so she had a couple shoulders to cry on, you know? So my question is, what tpye of sin is enough to keep someone from being on the worship team? Adultry, drugs, lying, porno, gossiping, homo-sexuality, causing divisions amongst the brethren, cheating, gambling, getting drunk????? We had a guitar player who had problems with drugs. I was never told by the executive staff to take him off the team. He was a slamming guitar player and they were harder to find than female vocalists. Catch my drift?
Put yourself in the place of an executive staff member at a church of 14,000 built largely around the personality, style, talent, and gifting of a senior pastor… who “founded”… “his” church. Imagine the senior pastor confessing a sin that would require him to resign, thus causing an extremely uncertain future for MANY people. Of course the right thing to do is to stand beside your pastor throughout a restoration process, as the house of cards tumbles. It’s real easy to stand where we are and say the church failed Ted Haggard but in a cult of personality (which most mega churches are to some degree, lets be transparent) when the blue print of what the church is supposed to be (See Acts) is altered we shouldn’t expect people to snap to a Biblical response.
#54 – There are no Biblical requirements for helping to lead singing. Paul encouraged the church at Corinth to receive back fully the man who had been commiting a sin “not mentioned among the heathen”. Church discipline seems to be for people who are unrepentent, while forgiveness and restoration is for those who have turned from some sin.
So you must ask yourself this question: Which image best represents Christ?
* The spectacle of removing a lady from worshiping God as part of a man made punishment
or
* The spectacle of a forgiven believer, worshiping her Redeemer with a renewed sense of the depth of His forgiveness. (not unlike the woman who washed the feet of Jesus because she “has been forgiven much”.)
Jesus embraced sincerity and brokenness and resisted pride. The father threw a party for his returning son, he didn’t place him on family probation. This isn’t to minimize sin, it is to maximize redemption. Of course if you allow her to sing, some legalists might take exception, but what else is new? Sinners being forgiven is the pinnacle of the worship experience, and who better to lead that procession than a sinner fresh from a restoring visit to Calvary?
Just my thoughts…
i’ve talked to the man – have you?
” Here is a trustworthy saying: If anyone sets his heart on being an overseer, he desires a noble task. Now the overseer must be ABOVE REPROACH, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach**, not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him with proper respect. (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?) He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. He must also have a GOOD REPUTATION with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil’s trap.”
1 Timothy 3:1-7
That pretty much sums up how and why people are disqualified from ministry.
** In the “new” paradigm we no longer make it a qualification for leaders to be able to teach. We’ve watered it down to being able to speak well and glean psychobable from movies and best selling books.
So there is no redemption? There is no grace? You jack up and you’re finished?
Not at all. Of course there’s redemption and there is grace… but there is also a 9 – 5 job down the street. I didn’t write 1 Timothy but it’s clear in scripture that there is a higher standard.
I think the issue here is that we tend to all lose the WHOLE picture of who God is. The World View unravels from there. Is he a God of Love and Mercy? Absolutely. Is He a God who HATES sin and is returning in WRATH. You’d better believe it. We’d all better believe it. God is HOLY. He doesn’t wink at anyones habitual sin. Yours, mine, Ted Haggards. He calls some to Shepherd and he obviously placed a standard in scripture for code of conduct. Above reproach and good reputation are clearly included.
Redemption? Grace? ABSOLUTELY. Finished? No. Begining a new and very different work (as he works in you)…. yes.
Anne,
Look back to the first chapter of Genesis. God has a perfect plan, man violates that plan, then, whaddayaknow God has a PERFECT plan, man STILL violates that plan, guess what? God brings us back to His perfect plan. Yes we can find redemption but It doesn’t mean our reality or consequences will necessarily be redeemed to our liking.
But you do realize that there is no one but Jesus who meets those requirements, right? I’m a pastor, and I don’t meet all of those standards all the time.
An unintended evil here is that as people pull that passage out and say, “Anyone who is not all of these things at all times can’t be the pastor.” What happens then, is exactly what happened with Haggard and thousands of others. In order to keep their job, they cover their sin up. Then we present a facade of perfection to the people who are all too willing to buy it.
There is no pastor without sin – which means they are not above reproach. The trick is to have solid accountability, and be a sinner in the open. Tell others about your own temptation and sin so they can pray for you and help you.
When Haggard did that, he got platitudes and cliches, but no help. At the level of temptation, he asked for help and direction.
He is also not trying to get back into ministry.
God uses the broken, not the perfect. Most of the Bible was physically written by murderers and adulterers.
How do we handle the Sermon on the Mount? Jesus says if we’ve thought it, we’ve done it. Do you think your pastors thoughts are above reproach? Come sit in my office as I handle phone calls from all over the country, and counsel them in person.
As a pastor ministering in the arena of porn/sex addiction I encourage all in ministry to show their weakness. It’s what Dan Allender calls, “Leading with a Limp.” I agree with that.
Again, we have to come back time and time again to the Gospel. What should our response be to Ted Haggard now? Does The Church have some culpability here, too? How do we show him grace, mercy and compassion?
Few have their issues aired so publicly. It is a difficult place I can assure you.
When unbelievers see how we respond to sinners in our midst, they are less than inspired to belief in the Gospel of forgiveness we profess. There’s a disconnect. It comes back to the Gospel –
There is no point scale for sin – you know how many pastors are overweight? Yet they hold their positions which is in clear violation of the self control edict of 1 Timothy. Do we run them out of their pulpits now?
We have just separated out the sexual stuff as far more heinous for some reason.
It has to come back to the Gospel and how that should effect our relationships and how we deal with each other.
Tal,
You make good points. What we have to unpack here is that over the last two thousand years we have added so much to what “Christianity” is and what “Church” is that we find ourselves in the place of confusion we are at today. Think about that.
The pastor is SUPPOSED to be simply a man carrying out his role in the Body of Christ. That role? To shepherd. Now, that is both incredibly simple yet complex at the same time. Unfortunately we have pushed away from the simplicity and heaped on the complexities as time has rolled on.
Do you believe that Ted Haggard was EVER the shepherd to 13,000 people in Colorado Springs, Colorado. Let me put it to you this way. Could I give any one man 13,000 actual real life sheep and expect him to PERSONALLY shepherd them?
Exactly.
We have taken the role of Pastor away from the Biblical context. We have applied the American 21st Century idea of CELEBRITY and super imposed them onto what a pastor should be.
In the same way we’ve done that to “church”. In the Bible Pastors are SENT OUT. In the modern context they SET OUT, assemble a board of directors, build a team (that looks just like them) and they are off.
Everything is broke, we all are broke.
“Could I give any one man 13,000 actual real life sheep and expect him to PERSONALLY shepherd them?”
Of course not, not even 300. Paul even wished men would remain single for that reason. But like missionaries, the church must adjust to the culture without sacrificing Biblical principles. The paradigm has changed, and with the invention of the automobile and the population metriculating toward urban areas, there arises a necessary coalition of believers for outreach and care.
Home cells have been somewhat effective as well as Sunday School classes. I personally believe that more of an emphasis on elders, especially with several elders preaching in turn. That would avoid the “I am of Cephas, I am of Paul” type of celebrity and divided loyalties. The adulation of preachers is counterproductive to spiritual growth and obscures Christ among the people.
In some ways Haggard is a product of the system, too much power, too much money, and not enough accountability. But redemption still is at the heart of God’s will.
WOW! What a post!
Let’s take Haggard out of the equation for a minute. I see so many poeple commenting on Haggard’s situation but when I read your post, I asked myself, “do I have a Christian friend that I could turn to in a tough situation?” or better yet “am I the kind of friend that someone could feel comfortable coming to if they were in a tough situation?”
Thanks for allowing God to use you Anne!
In my view Ted Haggard’s greatest failing was his condemnation of homosexuality in his church prior to the scandal: an unjust stance common to many people who haven’t had their bigotry doubled by hypocrisy. Imagine what might have happened if, instead of asking to be “healed” of homosexual desire, Haggard had asked to be forgiven only for his hypocrisy and betrayal of his family’s trust. Imagine if he had taken the opportunity to work for justice and change: to ask the church to recognize homosexuality as a natural part of God’s world.
Anne, I realize that many of your readers would be appalled were you to espouse such a view. But I wonder — can someone as open-minded and compassionate as you seem to be believe that same-sex love is always wrong? Ted Haggard is not, of course, an example of a person who has found fulfillment in a stable, respectful, healthy, loving gay relationship. But I wish that you believed such a thing could exist. It does. I wish that, if you did or do believe in the sacredness of love between people regardless of their sexual orientation, you could be free to profess that belief here and in any venue of your Christian life.
DCM-I tried to email you but it came back undeliv.
Jud,
Everything is broken. We are all broken – absolutely right. That started in Genesis 3 and things essentially have not changed all that much. There have been mega churches long before today, and they are not going anywhere. I don’t think they are the problem in and of themselves.
It comes back to the fact that we are all broken so we have to figure out ways to do the Gospel together in community. How do we allow each other to be broken. How do we help each other heal? How do we help each other along in the sanctification process?
How do we handle a pastor, who is struggling with temptation, and asks for help? What do we do when their imperfection comes to the surface? When broken people hurt each other, how do we live in community together when other disappoint us and when we disappoint them?
How do we wield grace instead of judgment when other let us down? How do we go about restoring them? God’s aim is always restoration and redemption – how do we make those ours, too?
If we could give each other the gift of transparency without judgment, the world could truly be impacted by the power of the Gospel. We could also avoid so much of our sin knowing that we could safely talk to brothers and sisters about it, and they could come alongside us and help us.
It is easy to see right and wrong and to act accordingly based solely on that perspective. Do right = reward, do wrong = punishment. Even the unregenerate can understand that judicial construct.
But what happens when you add mercy? Or grace? Or love? The equation becomes a little more difficult to discern, because let us face it, God’s grace is wrong, profoundly wrong, judicially wrong, in fact eternally wrong. And we never seem to have a problem receiving it, just extending it.
This is a good discussion, no doubt.
Tal, my point in #46 was that he did seek and get help (countering your point in #52, “…but Anne?s point was that when he reached out for help before it all got going, no one was willing to offer any.”) He was counseled for several years, by four church pastors, and in 2007, he issues a big press release in 2007 that he was totally heterosexual. The link to that 2007 USAToday news story is in my response above. Further Googling revealed that in early 2008, he ended his relationship with the New Life Restoration team, chosing to continue accountability with Pastor Tommy Barnett at Phoenix First Assembly. Clearly, he had and hopefully is still getting help.
As to the transparency, judgement, forgiveness, grace, love issues – we as believers have been instructed to forgive 70×7, we’ve been instructed to judge not, lest we be judged, we’ve been instructed to love our neighbors as ourselves, we’ve been instructed be careful of false teachers and prophets, and a litany of other commands. Ted’s forgiveness is between him and God, right? Our job is to love Ted, a sinner, as we would love ourselves.
So why has he been on all the major news programs and talk shows in such a rapid-fire manner? What’s the motive? Attention for his HBO documentary airing now? Or is it real repentance and healing?
We as believers need to ask and seek an answer to THESE questions, not to judge him, but to evaluate his words and message per the Biblical instruction to be on alert for those attempting to decieve. He still can be used by God, no doubt, just as any of us, sinners, can be used by God.
“What?s the motive?”
Only God knows that. What’s the motive for people to watch him? Only God knows that.
Keep the good information comming, we need more authors like you!