Someone left this comment on this post:
“If you are a pastor and want to know if you are the cause of burnout, look at your turn over rate, how many people have worked for you more than ten years, how many former employees still go to your church? Have you ever reached out to them?
That kicks you right in the stomach, doesn’t it?
Staff turnover (and volunteer turnover) in churches is HUGE.? And as pastors and leaders, we should ask ourselves those questions.
Your thoughts?
Comments
24 responses to “Church Staff Turnover”
I’ve been on staff at my church for over 5 years now and I will admit that there have been times where it would have been easy for me to just walk away. When I get to that point, and its been more than once, I look at the good things that I’m able to do because of my position. I’ve been known to say that the biggest reason I stay working at my church is because of the community. I love the people! Sure my job may be busy at times and I may feel overwhelmed, but I truly do love what I do and I love the people. That makes it worth it to me. I’m not sure that everyone has that mindset and I think that’s why this is such an interesting topic.
As a former youth minister, I agree, to a point. We are responsible for our own personal growth. I think you’ve mentioned that before. However, everyone looks to the pastor for leadership. If they are not leading in a way that makes people drink from the Living Water, then burnout will come. If there is a large rate of burnout, I’d start asking questions. However, it is probably 5 years too late to ask questions at that time.
As a church planter and pastor now, I must listen to this, I must listen to the volunteers and staff and make sure that my leadership is taking them to the Living Water and Bread. That is where we will never go hungry. It is our of this deep personal relationship that true ministry comes anyway.
This is a HUGE issue that pastors need to be dealing with. I worked for a church where some of the staff members were talking to our boss about the turnover rate and she told them that it wasnt something she worried about because our turnover rate wasnt as bad as the national average. WOW! Is that what we are shooting for, the national average? Tell that to the 17 year old junior in high school who has had 10 different youth ministers since the eighth grade and none of them still attend the church. (NOTE: When your staff is talking to you about the high turnover rate, you might be the cause of burnout.) I think that formula makes sense and should be used but it shouldn’t be the main criteria a pastor uses. Many churches either haven’t been around long enough or aren’t big enough to use that formula but are still burning people out and at the end of the day spiritual heart issues are not best gaged by physical tangibles. I think you have to constantly be praying for your staff’s spiritual health, create an environment where staff members feel safe to not keep on that churchly smiley face and be honest about struggles so you can regularly asking them how they are feeling and get honest answers, and be looking for the warning signs that indicate burn out so you can pick up on it even when the don’t or when they don’t feel able to be honest about it.
6 years ago when my husband and I officially joined the church we are at now, all but one of the Pastors left the congregation within 2 months of our joining and that remaining pastor left approximately a year later. It certainly caused a huge gap in our “comfort zone” with the church. We became occasional attendee’s and really didn’t get involved in very much at all.
A few years later we were approached with an idea to help start up a new service at our new campus. We took the challenge, and have been extremely involved ever since. It has been wonderful watching something so near and dear to our hearts, grow and flourish. We have an awesome, close-knit community. We still have a lot of quirks to work out, but the communication lines remain open and encouraging. We have had a few staff leave over the past couple of years, but the majority is still here and we have had a couple new pastors join the staff during that time as well. I definitely feel “Home” there.
It can be tricky for both the church and the staff pastor/family. When my husband came on at our church almost 8 yrs ago, he was a bachelor right out of college. Now we’re a family of 3 (hoping to make that a family of 4) but can’t really keep living on a bachelor’s budget. And we’re not looking to get rich, just to make ends meet with some savings and hopefully to buy a house in the future, but at this rate it’s impossible. On the other side of things, with the economy and everything, we know the church isn’t in a place where they could make it happen, with the economy and the state of their finances. Luckily, we have a wonderful lead pastor and staff and are willing to stick it out and try to think creatively with our finances/career to make it work. But at some point practicality wins. We’re hoping it’s not soon, so that we can continue to build on the 8 years of ministry and relationships that we have formed in the church and community!
I used to work at a large mega-church who it its entire 40+ year history had only ever had 1 person retire. Because no one stayed long enough to retire. But the turnover wasn’t necessarily caused by burnout, it was simply that the leadership didn’t value the people & gifts Got had provided them. When you’re a big enough mega-church, people are easy to replace.
Right on Garret! I agree that open communication about how things are really going amongst staff is important. I don’t like putting on that churchy smiley face all the time. People often ask the traditional question “how’s it going?” and my answer is usually something like, “hangin in there…” I rarely throw out the expected “Pretty good”, because the truth is that things aren’t always good.
@j a n
True… people are easy to replace but I don’t think that should be the norm. Now when it comes to growth and growing beyond a staff members gifts and talents I think that person’s position needs to be looked at again, but staff members leaving because they are easy to replace is not a good philosophy.
I’ve been at my church for almost 11 years. The only reason I am still able to stay after our very difficult and traumatic last three years is:
1) I did not feel released by God to leave. No matter how angry or bitter or hurt I was I couldn’t evade the calling of God to stay. Believe me, I wanted to leave several times and even prayed to be released. God said no.
2) I went to counseling and got involved in a retreat community with accountability. Through these I learned to do ministry differently. It has been life changing and ministry saving.
3) I took a sabbatical. I asked for it at the risk of losing my position but I had two options: take a break or leave ministry for a time.
I am seeking to help our management team (we are in an interim time) rewrite our personnel policy to encourage healthy ministry practices for our staff…….but it’s complicated, takes supervision and teaching and it must be modeled from the top down. It also requires that we reproduce ourselves as leaders. Like I said, it’s complicated.
I will personally never be able to go back to what used to be. I just can’t go back to the workaholic crazy hours and having no boundaries whatsoever………..Even now I know I cannot be responsible for everyone and everything and I cannot fix things no matter how much I might like to. I am committed to leading out of health………
But it has turned my ministerial world upside down!!!
speaking of all of this… I worked 7 days last week… so I’m going home now! I still have stuff to do here at work but you know what… it can wait!
Anne, what are the average stays? I know that senior pastors average 3 1/3 years or something. Do you know any stats for other ministerial staff?
I think it’s true. Though the church environments that I’ve been part of here would maybe justify “turnover” or people leaving church by saying something like they just didn’t agree with our vision or something. Like there was something wrong with the person who left or stepped down.
I wonder if many Pastors actually have the awareness of the true reasons why someone may leave or step down from a church. I only left the church I burnt out in because I moved cities, but I truly believe that God got me out of that environment into a safer, wiser, more respectful church.
In 8 years, every position on my staff of 12 has changed at least once except me. This includes pastor. Some positions have gone through up to 4 changes.
as a new member of the ranks of “church staff” it doesn’t sit very well with me, but even with only a short period of time under my belt I can see very easily how burnout can occur, and frequently, and cause turnover of this kind…
from the day i entered our youth group (six years ago) until today (with a semester left) our youth ministry has felt the loss of many lead youth pastors and exponentially more volunteers. granted, burn out has not been the sole cause of turnover but it has had a powerful presence. at this point, quick turnover (few months-1 1/2 years) has become the norm, and as more older students begin to realize this, it’s been easy for frustration with the church to develop and for focus to quickly fall from christ-loving and kingdom building. i agree with statements above regarding the necessity of an environment based on honest and open communication and pray that in short time and for the future, churches will begin to realize and address the causes of rampant burnout and turnover.
@Scott Fillmer… welcome to the “ranks of ‘church staff’! I’m glad that you are aware of this kind of thing early on in your career in ministry so that hopefully it never happens to you. Find your balance! That’s sounds weird for me to say since I work pretty much 7 days a week… but seriously… find a balance!
As a former volunteer, I wanted to throw in my two cents to this topic. Church burnout does interest me, because it happened to me. I volunteered in Youth Ministry, with my friend who was the Youth Pastor. Two things have stuck out to me in this experience, which lasted a little over two years: 1) I lost a friend! Our friendship became all church, all the time, and in that we stopped sharing regular life together. When are people inside the church going to understand that living life isn’t about how many days you can help out or how many meetings/services/programs you can attend in a week? Where is the time to get together with friends and family, just chat about life, kids, parents, sports, fishing, or whatever it is you find fun to talk about (other than Jesus of course *cough). 2) I’ve lost a church family. They only care to ask when I’m coming back to church, why I’ve been away for so long, how my life is going. When I did go back I got weird glances and the whisper, “oh, my, look who’s here” “wow, how longs it been for them” and I’m sure they said this “they must be close to rock bottom”. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, if you get anything from this, it’s that people who don’t go to church aren’t automatically at rock bottom. Life could be great, and their relationship with the one who actually counts, Jesus, could still be the large part of their life He was before. Please, get off you soapbox, humble yourselves a little bit, live the life you were given by the creator, and do what we’ve all been called to do: Love God, Love People. We were not called to love church. It’s that easy!
have to wonder if the time of ‘stay’ is influenced more by the lead/senior/blond highlighted pastor – or could it just be that the people that pay the staff’s person salary may have a little inupt?
one of the things that we have to remind staff and pastors about continually is that they are not nearly as important as they think that they are – as far as their ‘job security’. simply put, they do indeed drive strategy/vision in a lot of churches – but they must also have just a tad bit of buy in also.
This is a sticky subject for Churches period, because being an employee for a church has to be a calling and by its very nature is extremely demanding. Having worked for my church, I have to say that this is a very complicated tight rope to walk. I, myself, had to set up some guidelines in dealing with the clergy, so that we would know when to respond to each other as boss to employee, and when to respond as clergy to member of the flock.
Having said this, I can only imagine what this is like for the clergy/boss. Talk about difficult, especially when their are problems. It is kind of like having family work for you. I have seen this handled well, and I have seen it handled badly. When handled well, it seems to me that the clergy really does try to emulate a Christ-like response to the employee. It goes badly when it becomes a business transaction.
Many secular companies of today are flying the Christian mission banner as a marketing tool, and you can clearly see the conflict of interest in a Christian mission and capitalism. A close, computer programmer, friend of mine was wooed by a so-called Christian Company and took a job there because of their Christian mission statement. He soon found out that there was alot of turnover and became worried by their harsh judgement of performance based on how devout you were deemed to be.
Everything was fine until he ran into some difficulties with his project and missed a couple of deadlines due to additions made by his supervisor to the project. This was costing the company more money than they wanted to spend. This was when he was told that he wasn’t praying hard enough and not listening to God with a pure heart. He was instructed to go home and pray for God to show him the way
When he became worried for his job even more with talk of outsourcing, and expressed his concern, they accused him of not accepting God as his true provider, and looking to the company for provision. This was explained by the company owner- “An employer is only the conduit that God is using at that time to provide.”
My friend continued to a have difficulty despite praying and trying to accept what his Christian company was saying as being truth. Ultimately, he was fired without notice and no means to provide for his family. He had never been warned or given a poor evaluation. In fact, he had been assured he would not be let go, as they had invested too much money in him. He also was completely unprepared for a Christian organization treating some in such an un-Christian way.
He came to find out later that at a company was having finiancial difficulties, and was going to outsource the project to an Eastern European Company. Apparently, at a manager’s retreat the managers were told that employees should be let go if they are not able to fit in and be themselves. It was explained by the owner-” Live full out and be yourself. If being yourself is not a good fit for the company you need to find a new work home.” He explained that God would not want you to keep an employee who could not reach their full potential in your employ.
Okay, I know you are wondering what my point is-well, the above story clearly shows how trying to make the work of God a business just doesn’t work. I think many Churches try to run like secular businesses and visa versa. This is what leads to burnout and turnover.
To avoid this pitfall, the Church employer has to remember that they have a higher responsibility to their employee. I also believe this to be true of a secular company who has defined their company as a Christian organization. At this point, you have not just entered into a business contract, but a spiritual contract. You are more than a team. You are family. So, if there are problems, look to the higher power for how to handle it compassionately, not for rationalizations to sooth your guilt and soul.
So, looking at turnover and burnout in Christian organizations can often be related to an individual’s misunderstanding of the the job and in these cases not the Church employer’s fault. Still they have a spiritual responsibility to make this transition in a compassionate, Christian manner, providing support and care to the employee. On the other hand, if things don’t work out for other reasons, it is still the responsibility of the Christian employer to treat the employee in the same way and see it as an opportunity to help the employee/person grow spiritually. When handled this way, it has been my experience that those are the folks who will still be sitting in your pews and singing the praises of working for a Church!
I’ve had not-for-profit organizations as clients (Hr and Insurance) for 25 years before moving to teaching 8th grade 5 years ago. The one point that almost all not-for-profits miss is that it costs a significant amount (in time and resources, particularly dollars and lost productivity) every time a person leaves the organization. Learning curves are expensive…maybe not in hard dollars, but in soft dollars and developing relationships among pastors, staff and volunteers. While retaining staff is important in all ministries, it is particularly important in youth ministry. Middle school and high school kids in particular need structure and routine in life…and in relationships. I almost choked when I read Garrett’s comment about kids having 10 youth ministers in a 4 to 5 year period.
Yes, I volunteer, too; quite a lot actually, and enough for me to take seriously Mr. Brenna’s comment about “finding a balance.” However, I am VERY careful to nurture that volunteer life; I guard that jealously, because my volunteer efforts are my gift back to the church. I may not be able to financially give as much as I would like, but my time and talents are worth an equal measure of treasure.
Could I burn out as a volunteer? Of course. The 80/20 rule says that 80% of your sales come from 20% of your clients. News flash: 20% of the volunteers do 80% of the work. It may well also be true that only 20% of the congregation volunteers. I pick and chose my ministries and try to play to my strengths.
A church is still a going concern, a living and breathing organization made up of flawed humans doing the best we can. I always try to remember that and keep myself humble…to God be the glory, His work, my hands. It doesn’t always work, but I keep trying.
I’d like to comment on the specific topic of terminating a paid staff member. It’s very easy for a lead pastor to justify firing someone because the person is not doing the job to the pastors standards or what not. I guess they feel they have the right to do that. I can understand firing a staff member if there is undermining taking place or if serious sin is involved. But if a person just isn’t bringing their particular department up to the next level so to speak or they are lacking in some area of ministry, why not try to reach out and help that staff member, providing every means possible to help that person become the leader he may have been called to be. After all, most of the time when a staff person is brought on staff, we usually say that person was called by God to that position. If that’s true, and assuming it wasn’t just the thing to say, then why is that person being terminated? If God has called them, then He called them for a reason and maybe HE wants them to stay on staff to learn more and become all that God has called them to be. Granted, God can move them on to continue to grow in another area of ministry or work but as a lead pastor, he needs to make sure God is moving them on and not just the pastor. ????
Maybe it’s because the system of organized religion and professional Clergy is UNBIBLICAL and was never a part of God’s design for His Body/Bride/House the CHURCH……………(called out and set apart ones)
I work part-time in the church office with a 67-year old full-time lady. My “job” has increased over the last 3 years of 8 employed here but not the hours. I’ve been given the technical computer responsibilities that the older secretary can’t manage. I’m assigned to committees to be the pastor’s “voice” but I’m to speak as though it were my own. I am told to “volunteer” the hours because that is my “ministry” within the church. Ministries that I want to be involved in, I’m not able because the Sr. Pastor gets to them first and has told them, “she is too involved in ** and ** ministries to be a part of yours.
Laymen aren’t told what their ministry is, how can I be? The Sr. Pastor has caused this and because of politics going to the Pastor/Parish Committee or Deacons isn’t an option. It isn’t simple to quit because of the economy, I’m a widowed mother of 2 in her early 40’s, no college degree, and I’d like the job of the full-time secretary when she retires in 3 years. I am proud that I’m good at what I do.
I love the church, the people, it’s been my life for 20 years. My children have grown up here. It’s not in our denomination to change so many set years, it’s up to the congregation. I’m trying desperately to “wait out” the pastor. Show my worth to the other leaders in a way that won’t endanger my job because it will be in conflict with the Sr. Pastor. What a mess in a christian setting!
This reminds me of a staff meeting we were having at a church where I was worship pastor. Our lead pastor was making the point about each of us working ourselves out of a job, so to speak and to make sure we are teaching someone to take our place. I’m thinking to myself, I’ve been volunteering as worship leader for years and I finally am brought on as full-time worship pastor and I’m supposed to teach someone to take my job. No way. I asked the lead pastor in that meeting if he was going to give up his position to someone else in a couple years. I told him we all need to follow your example. It didn’t go over well. Hey, not my problem.