it was in the wall street journal a couple weeks ago* and it was covered by the tennessean this weekend.
churches using mystery shoppers. or is it mystery worshippers?
eh, call it what you will.
from the tenneesean:
The person sitting next to you in church today may look like an average visitor, but be careful, he might be taking notes.
A growing number of churches are using mystery worshippers, consultants giving congregations the same kind of unbiased, unfiltered feedback that secret shoppers give retail stores or restaurants. The mystery worshippers give churches the kind of honest responses that newcomers almost never do. From angry parking lot attendants to boring sermons, they let the churches know what they are doing right and wrong.
honestly, i have mixed thoughts on this. fresh eyes are a necessity. what does your sunday gathering communicate? is it consistent with what god has called your unique church to be? or are you missing the mark, but too close to see it?
on the other hand, is it necessary? if you’re fully relying on what you sense the holy spirit is leading you to do, and trusting he will bring the right people, the right connections all together at the right time, do you need a stranger coming in with critical eyes to tell you the letters on your signage aren’t big enough? i think back to churches in the united states, in europe, and in africa that i have visited – some with all the right signage and people in place but had no sense of community or spirit…and some with what we would call terrible “first impressions” but god was clearly moving with no regard to the out of tune guitar or the uncomfortable seats or stuffy worship center.
i’m not saying it’s right or wrong – i think this is a potentially subjective matter. but i do think it may be one that could be wrapped up a teensy bit too tightly in a layer of modern consumer mentality if we listen to everything we’re told or feel pressured that we should do.
jesus was confident in the way he went about his work, and as long as we have the same confidence, no mystery church shopper (or long time member, for that matter) should be needed or able to influence us away from that.
your thoughts?
—
*please note that my boss man was misquoted in the WSJ article — cross point church has never used a mystery shopper.
Comments
49 responses to “mystery shoppers in churches”
Obviously a mystery worshipers feedback should not lead you to compromise what you feel God is calling your church to do. I do think it could be helpful in being hospitable hosts by helping spot minor things that aren’t obvious to attenders because they are so used to it but that might be a problem for visitors/new people that don’t know where to find things and how things work.
Great questions. I think it all comes down to the heart and motivation.
We’ve never used one but mainly because we haven’t needed to. We’ve always been blessed with great staff and volunteers (including church consultants) that have given us unfiltered feedback on first impressions.
I guess there may be churches out there that don’t have a culture that supports unfiltered feedback and therefore they need to hire someone to help them understand what barriers need to be removed for first time guests.
But what do I know? I could argue this one either way.
We have used “Secret Shoppers” at LifeChurch.tv and the campuses have received some great fresh feedback. As time passes it becomes more difficult to get tjose fresh eyes.
If a secret shopper can help a church fill gaps in a system or help develelop better systems for excellence; then I think it’s all good. If excellence can honor God and inspire others, go make it happen… everyone has a different methodology of getting there. No harm done… just get er’ done!
I think we can all become those shoppers — it just takes getting outside ourselves and looking with the fresh eyes. A recent conference showed a couple of us that the we we shared about the “guest tab” on the bulletin was being announced sounded like it was more for those IN the church and those who are on vacation, but NOT for those who might just be visiting from the community. Simple words — but a strong message. Didn’t take an outsider, only a couple staff members listening with “outsider” ears. (I’m thinkin’ God did that….)
I don’t think it’s a bad idea, but I don’t think it’s prescriptive, either. I think the dynamics of the church, the size of the church, the size of the community, the demographics you’re attracting all play into whether or not you should/would use a mystery worshipper (that’s a funny expression) . . . I also strongly agree with Pete’s sentiment that it would depend on the culture and whether unfettered feedback could be provided by non-“consultants”
Really good discussion . . .
Is it too idealistic to ask God to just show you?
Or is it too black and white to say he won’t show you by using someone you hire?
Anne: “Is it too idealistic to ask God to just show you?”
Probably. Feedback is good, but God may not cater so much to a consumer mentality. Sure, we may be putting up barriers inadvertantly to seekers, but Jesus did also (see the last half of John 6)
good point, anne. maybe we are so busy trying to market to the masses that we just don’t have time to hear God tell us what we really should be doing – therefore, we need those all kowing, perfectly aligned withGod’s call, only they can hear from God mortals to do it for us.
we had a mystery worshiper once and when the big daddies at corporate got the report they ragged our staff pretty hard. the staff implemented a couple of their gentle ideas (like, do it now or you’re gone!) and then they were written up for not following the 2,000,000,000,000 page corporate manual-
oh well, at least the mystery worshiper got a discounted salvation coupon for their efforts. maybe i need one of those coupons so i can get to heaven and not have to be so darn good all the time, or maybe just ask for forgiveness from a passive/aggressive pastor – yep, that’ll do it alright – anyone know one of those?
dave – please elaborate, that sounds interesting
All I can think of is how terribly sad this is. Secret worshipers=Competing Chruches=Church Hoppers.
I’ll never forget what the pastor at our home church said to me when I approached him about something I didn’t like about the service. He said, “If you’re looking for a church where you’re 100% satisfied every Sunday, you shouldn’t come back here.” That was maybe the 3rd time I had ever been at that church, but if I never see the inside of another church, that would be fine. I’m not there to look at the pretty lights or to judge anyone or anything. I’m there to learn about and worship our God. People who look for the perfect church will be forever searching because when you step in the building looking to be let down, you will be; when you walk inside taking notes on what you hear rather than what is said, you’ll be in another building next week. When you enter a place of worship for YOU, you failed already and you should GET OUT!
If people would pick a church and STICK with it, there would be no secret shoppers to speak of. People would go where they always go and churches would be satisfied that God is there and not worry about the number of butts that are in the seats.
Ooh! I wanna be a mystery shopper! How much does it pay? Oh cmon! Can I at least get a t-shirt that says “Mystery Shopper for Mystery Jesus”? (grin)
Now granted I know /nothing/ about marketing, and that sort of thing. I’m an IT geek. And I’m old.
But at times those things seem so superficial to me. Who /cares/ what the sign looks like? Who CARES what color the carpet it. Who cares what type of building you have. I mean it should be safe for people, of course. Maybe I’m just ultra practical or something.
I care about the relationships inside the building. I just want God to show up. If he’s there, who cares about all the trappings?
It has to be both/and. Ultimately, if God is not driving your direction, you are in the wrong car. But, at the same time, you must take care to remove the distractions that may stand in the way of anyone even getting close enough to perceive what that direction is…
Anne, I would think in the other examples you noted, they have found other ways to bring people closer to the direction/message. Those are good and right things to pursue also… (authenticity, relationship, shared community mission, etc)
This last spring, we moved for my husbands job which required us to find a new church. The area that we moved to has a lot of good options for churches. We visited SO many churches and tried to compare the pros and cons about each all in an attempt to find the church that a good fit for us. Most churches we visited several times as most times the first visit is never a true picture of what the church is like.
It was nice when a church sent out a welcome pack with an anonymous reply card for your first week in attendance. I was able to honestly say what our experience was like…for instance, most churches had no obvious flaws for the first week in attendance. However, one particular church had uninformed and angry looking nursery workers and we felt uncomfortable leaving our daughter there during the service. When we went to pick up our daughter after the service was done, little two year old’s were streaming out of the room into the hallway unattended (ie-no nursery workers or parents/guardians). This was a HUGE red-flag for us and a deal breaker. Also at this church, they had a visitors parking lot in front of the church but no greeters at this door to help us. However, at the main parking lot for regular attenders, there were all kinds of smiling faces. Also, the visitors table didn’t have anyone to answer questions, etc. All of this in a larger church that seemed like verbally (during the service) and in media (online, bulletin, signage, etc) like they cared about all of this stuff.
Needless to say, we never went back there. When the little card came in the mail asking about our experience, I thought it was only fair to give them an honest account of our visit. I would have wanted to know if it was our church sending off this vibe…
I think this is necessary in churches (the only problem is the churches many view as needing this feedback probably would never ask someone to critic them.) This could be helpful if they were thinking about marketing or administratively it functions…. how things are run.
But other than that….this seems useless in the sense that every worshipper gets a different experience from the exact same worship service. How can you tell whether or not it’s just an opinion versus an actual issue.
$1500? Seriously?
Can’t we just pay staff members to do their job better?
My bad… The article actually says $1000. But, still.
het julie – i’m the pastor/lead elder/fiannce chairman/ and ceo of that church
i appreciate the feedback and let me explain – here at the Jesusmediavideo.ipod church we want =only the coolest, hippest people around. And well yu see it’s like this. People with kids area drain on our media budget and our worship pastor has to buy those funky clothes (to look like a secular model) and he/she (we’re not sure today) has a rather large salon budget paid for by us. also, my book tour is taking a large swatch out of the kids budget so we are no longer doing any background checks, etc – or training. I guess you didn’t notice the hepatitis B warning sign on the back of the men’s bathroonm door warning you that all the kids were exposed two weeks ago – hey, we DO inform you know. It’s not all bad, the two week left over corndogs from the fair were very cheap and the kids really eat em up!
Now don’t get me wrong, you are valued, it’s just that after reviewing our parking lot security tapes that your family did not (but just barely not, so be encouraged) meet up to our, let’s say, modern Biblical standards on which our church is founded.
Will you please agree with me though on this point. The red flag you mentioned above did work didn’t it? I mean, we tried and succeeded at sending you a message in Christ like love. This is a new program we are testing. Our car towing bills were getting pretty steep so we quit doing that two weeks ago.
Anyway, I forgive you in love for being a whiner, etc. You would not have liked it here anyway (by looking at your outfit on the securtiy camera again). God loves you and you are His precious jewel!!!!
Doing His work as no one else can do it,
Pastor Video Man
p.s.
(and thanks for the $350 tithe)
a thousand bucks = how many hungry kids being fed??????????
that’s the sickest thing i’ve ever heard of
tony, ugh, yer still doing a children’s ministry? That’s so last year…(grin)
umm… interesting comments..
i feel it would be a lot cheaper for a church staff to find a few people they KNOW are honest, and just ask them. there are plenty of blunt people without much tact that would tell you straight up how they see it.
However, it tends to be my opinion that people-pleasing pastors probably shouldn’t be pastoring.
How’s that for an alliteration?
I think a quality church is a combination of relying on God and bringing our all to do our part. I don’t think we can do things half-heartedly and just expect the Holy Spirit to show up. God is looking for us to be committed and do everything we can to serve him.
Consultants can help us with our part of the presentation. God can use consultants to help us in the right direction.
Anne – I don’t think it’s idealistic to ask God to show you. He can do what a mystery shopper can’t – tell you where you need to go, even if it means stepping on some people’s toes. Moreover, I like what Pete said about creating a culture where people feel safe to give unfiltered feedback. If we can’t honestly share (while humbly admitting our own consumer-driven mindset), then can we really call what we’re doing “church”?
I’ve used “secret shoppers” before, I admit. In fact I i was really particular in who I used. I made sure that I chose some who had a .ong time experience with church as well as those who have barely set foot in a church, or never! And I get it all done for free!
ok…I may be “cheating.” I guess my family from out of town and non-Christian friends doon’t count as “official” secret shoppers.
Oh Lord! this whole concept negates the purpose of Church. Church is where we are supposed to be open and honest, as well as loving and caring. How can people truly reflect the love of God, without being open and honest, with themselves, with each other, with God.
A church that considers doing this is already admitting a serious problem – not with the worship, but with the worshipers.
Church isn’t something to sell – it’s something to give away.
jimmy = :)
well, we’re trying to shut that bugger down – they’re lousy givers per capita
Tony-LOL :)
Ugh! This is one more example of the worst of the corporatization of American churches. The church is not a business, people! And trying to run it according to business and marketing principles corrupts the mission every time.
I believe this is totally unnecessary, as we as a church should know how we are doing, just by what the Holy Spirit is laying on our hearts. I do believe, however, it might be a good idea to include in our Sunday morning tear off a mini survey, so to speak, on how we did that day with greeting the person, making them feel welcome, how the worship music made them feel, what they think about the current series, and any suggestions. This would give us ongoing feedback from member and visitors alike; after all, we are in the “people” and “soul saving” business, and if there may be areas that we get repeated feedback about that could use tweaking, then why not pray specifically about that area dn see where the Lord leads us.
I know of a place where a pastor has family members on staff and another where the pastor is terribly close to one of his staffers. When the members have issues, they don’t dare tell the pastor, who thinks all is well. So maybe if one hires family members or forms tight friendships with staff members, an outside view might be a good idea.
Let’s agree to disagree. I haven’t read the articles yet but this can be done correctly or incorrectly (as with anything else in life). I have served in this capacity at LifeChurch.tv for free. I have something of a gift for this. And if your church is in the San Antonio, TX, area I’ll provide the service for considerably less than $1000. (I’ve been known to be bought off with a good meal).
I was actually on staff at a church that used a mystery worshipper. I worked in the student ministry, and after they had all come and gone, I was informed that there were families with students sent to analyze our worship services. We got good marks, but I felt a little dirty. I must say, as a person on a team being duped by ‘the system’, it didn’t sit well with me. I see the point of getting them, but is seems sneaky, and a little over the top to me. If I am trusted to do God’s work and my calling in your ministry, please don’t send in spies. I welcome elders sitting in on services, or staff members stopping by to see how things were, in fact, I was encouraged by it. I even liked the criticism, and loved hearing that those fake students felt welcomed and enjoyed the service, but disagreed with the way it happened. I think it is fair to say, at least in my case, I felt like that experience was not good for the team moral.
Wow, even more now I see this as dishonesty. And what if instead of checking on worshipers, the event was targeted on one person or group within the church – could easily be used to disenfranchise the “unwanted.”
Jesus sheds light – he does not work in darkness – neither should we.
I was a “mystery shopper” for a few months for the local Christian newspaper. The publisher knew that I was still searching for a church home in my new city and he needed someone to write for that section of the paper. I had a list of questions to answer – each with a paragraph or two.
I picked the churches, mostly from internet searches, and the church name was never mentioned in the paper – just what side of the city. They sent the pastor a copy and let him know that it was his church in the article.
I think the idea behind it was to get people to think – was that my church? Is that how I treat visitors? Should I change the way I treat visitors?
I was able to give the perspective of a single 40s female walking into church alone – which is different from couples/families. At one church the greeter with the bulletins was standing 15 ft away from the door – with her back to the door. No one inside would even make eye contact, let alone say hello. After service when I went to the desk to trade my contact card for a CD of their worship music, I stood about 2 feet back while the “greeter” was talking to another person – waiting until they finished. He saw me out of the corner of his eye, reached out to get my contact card and reached back to hand me a CD without looking my way or missing a beat of his conversation. This is the same church where after the sermon, a family of 4 got up and thanked everyone in the church. The had come the first time 4 weeks prior and were in need of furniture and other household items. Thanks to members of the church, they had the items they needed. Stark contrast to how I was treated!
In my time as a mystery shopper, I visited many churches and found 2 that I would attend. I attended the first for a couple of months but it was a 30 minute drive and I was driving an hour to work. I’ve been attending the 2nd for almost 2 years and am now part-time staff.
oh – and I wasn’t paid…. and my name wasn’t mentioned in the paper.
My church hasn’t, to my knowledge, hired a mystery worshipper. We have, however, used consultants from such places as Portable Church Industries to aid in developing efficiency in many areas of our church. This practice has certainly proven helpful.
If you truly feel the need to get feedback on your church’s service, why not ask the visitors? At Liquid we occasionally send a “Thanks for visiting” email to first-time guests that includs a few questions regarding what they thought of the people, worship service, atmosphere, etc.
It’s not about making people feel comfortable because it’s never about people, it’s about God. But I often ask myself, “How would a visitor best experience God’s love through me?”
As far as “mystery worshippers” go, while we’ve never hired one, we did discover that we received a visit from one back in 2007. A review of Liquid showed up on the Ship of Fools website.
I guess for me the “real” question would be “what/ who” is the church? If these are the things we are doing then I think we have missed the mark completely.
I think it’s a great idea but what i do is just ask my non-christian friends to do it for free beer. It works very well.
This is a very interesting conversation especially since most of these people also vented in Anne’s post “things you can’t say at church”. If you believe that you cannot say certain things at church then of course this tactic makes sense. According to Anne’s post, we could have written a book with all of our nit-picking about what we hate about our churches. if there are so many people who stay silent, then what is a church to do except hire a secret shopper to rate them.
However, I believe I can be honest and loving with the people at my church. We aren’t on a luxury cruise or shopping in a store, we have a serious mission to equip a congregation to reach the lost. It’s not a social club, its a place for people to come and be healed, set free, and delivered. I do believe that the Holy Spirit is the answer and the rest will come together with hard work, dedication, and most importantly LOVE. People are hungry for the power of God and love of Jesus…that is what we should be so concerned about.
The counter to JudiFree’s post is that, if you are afraid to speak up in this place you call church, is it really church? And if you are afraid to speak up in church, don’t you already know what the problem is, and not need someone from the outside to say it?
And really, isn’t the inability to speak up in church an issue of courage? I remember reading something in the book of Revelations that cowards go to hell.
Next time you are in church, “TELL THE PEOPLE WHAT YOU ARE THINKING”
to be honest, it bothers me. I don’t mind having someone visit and asking for feedback. But I don’t know …..it just seems funny to me, like on some level is violates the whole essence of what church is supposed to be – it violates something in the principle of being a community of worship for me. Call me naive or an idealist. I am both.
The following is a nearly two hour sermon called “Ten indictments against the Modern Church” by one Paul Washer. I think it would be worth anyone who loves the Lord and His Church to take heed to this warning for such a time as this.
Actually you can download the audio from this sermon here:
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=17378&commentView=itemComments
Compare this to the 25 minutes talk you hear on Sunday mornings. We have lost the RICHNESS of the Gospel in our churches.
Recently Craig Groeschel had a post on his Swerve blog about the advantages of bringing in an outsider to speak to the staff. You may have shared something with your staff for a long time with limited response. But sometimes an outsider can come in and say the same thing and it will be received more positively.
Suppose you see a problem at your church and you share it with leadership only to have it brushed off. If a consultant is used sometimes they can see and say the same thing and have it better received.
If you want to use a consultant do so without thinking less of those who don’t. If you don’t want to use a consultant then don’t without thinking less of those who do. The apostle Paul said so.
I find it funny that Christians think that media, marketing, money, etc. have nothing to do with the church. I also find it interesting to that many believe that Business has no place in a church setting either. Our churches are organizations….they have to function like a business at some capacity! Therefore, in a business wouldn’t you bring in someone to help you find where your short-fallings are?
I’m not advocating the whole Mystery Shopper experience per se, but I do advocate having strong Business Ehtics (which most churches do no have) and for their financial alignment to be that of a well oiled machine, much like many successful organizations outside the church. I think people feel like because we are a Church, we are exempt from the scrutiny of legal and deemed “wordly” if we consult an expert.
This is where churches miss the point! We can’t have fellowship, if our flock is flawed. We can’t expect our worshippers to worship if our worship leader can’t keep his budget from falling below what has been budgeted by leadership as an appropriate amount of tithe to keep the department going. We can’t expect the church to function appropriately when it comes to being a good steward of it’s money, if there isn’t someone running the show (behind the scenes, not so glamourous job), on numbers, and personnel and budgets, and money and income and debt.
Someone commented “I believe this is totally unnecessary, as we as a church should know how we are doing, just by what the Holy Spirit is laying on our hearts. ” — My response: There are so many posers in the ministry it’s not even funny! If we all relied on people’s hearts we would learn, sadly, that even in the church, many hearts are not centered around doing good for the cause of Christ. Many are self-focused and self-indulged in the publicity of pastoral-stardom.
If would never ask a Lawyer to give me medical advice on a major surgery. Why then is the church any different? Just because you are a pastor (professionally) doesn’t necessarily mean that you are ALSO gifted in marketing, business relations, etc. I would go to a consultant in two seconds if I felt that a major improvement for my church could be made based on knowledge that I didn’t have because preaching and teaching were my gifts.
I’m sure most people use a service like this with the best intentions and a right heart , but the “no harm done… Just get er’ done” mentality of Scott Williams (# 3 above) is eerily familiar to the old Machiavellian theory… The end justifies the means. Results over reality and style over substance make for a nice facade, but never deal with the heart. In 1 Corinthians 11:17-19 we find that there is an approval process that takes place through people rubbing each other the wrong way. He actually said it was necessary! I’m all for making the Sunday service inviting and welcoming. We should never cross anyone off the guest list (Read Romans 14 in the Message) However, when love is at the heart of everything we do than there can be real community and we can be open with our lives to see real transformation. Besides, the Bible says that they will know we are Christ-followers by our love for one another. The problem with that form of evangelism is that it takes time and Church shoppers base too much on surface stuff. I’ll take authentic worship over mystery any day!
Alcoholics Anonymous is one the most well respected and widely known institutions in the world. And yet you never see them advertise. Not on Billboards, Not on Tv, Not in Newspapers and Magazines. It is part of their stated goals, that they focus on attraction, and not promotion. If a church is doing the right thing, they will attract people to itself, and will not have to promote what they are doing. Their real connection to God would be self evident. And people wanting a real relationship with God will be attracted to that church.
It’s an interesting question. I’ve been going to church all my life and am also a mystery shopper. I thought the idea was intriguing. I’ve been to some churches (and worked for some churches) that could really have used a mystery shopper, because a shopper doesn’t have to fear consequences for telling the unvarnished truth. Sadly, in some churches, ego and money have taken over to such an extent that even constructive criticism might mean a pink slip. And churches have cultures sometimes just like companies do…I agree that a church should not be run like a corporation, but as one who has worked in two churches, I can tell you that in the larger ones especially, they sometimes are. The difference here is that maybe the mystery shopping can serve a better purpose than targeting wealthy donors.
Sometimes the regular churchgoer is the problem, too, so their ‘eyesight’ may not be as sharp when it comes to what is keeping newcomers away.
Consultants…if you can find the solution theres money to be made in prolonging the problem.
As long as we continue to let church leaders run churches like business’ why would we expect any different. They could save some money and try to humbly listen to the people who have probably already articulated some of the problems.
If you’re paying a guy to come in and tell you to paint your parking lot and change a few light bulbs you deserve what you get.