ok, my friends weren’t really satanic, but some members of my family thought they were. i was 19, had just called off a wedding, was working 9037 hours a week, partying with two different crowds – my uptown dallas yuppie friends and my downtown dallas music friends.
even though these particular groups of friends weren’t the best influence on my faith (which at this point in my life, i had pretty much deserted) the friendships that existed were the strongest most intimate bonds i have ever experienced in my life. i sacrificed so much for my friends – time, money, sleep, my living space…and they sacrificed for me. i knew whatever happened – through births, deaths, and divorce, we all stuck together.
after moving to kansas city in 2001 and recommitting my faith, those intimate seasons with my friends slowly faded. i know i can still call or text some of them even today and they’d be on my doorstep as soon as they could if i needed them, but our constant involvement in each others’ lives has diminished over time.
several people i know have great relationships, and model great relationships.
but i still hear a consistent cry of so many other believers that we are lonely. we lack relationships. we lack REAL relationships.
so really….
what gives?
what do you think?
why is it so different?
is it so different?
Comments
42 responses to “my satanic friends”
i think that some believers find it hard to be authentic. they try to come across like they don’t have any problems. they don’t want to get close to others because they don’t want others to see their problems. growing up in the church, this was what i was taught. i’m trying to unlearn that. hey, not capitalizing stuff is kinda fun…i could get used to it.
i agree with Sunny, although i’ve grown really tired of the word authentic, it really fits the situation. part of the problem is that we have trouble being vulnerable with others, especially when you’re in any sort of leadership position. the best times in my life have been when i’ve been around a community of people that said to hell with looking like we have it all together, we are going to be who we are, even if it means showing people we’re covered in the same filth everyone else is.
yeah, this eats my lunch just a bit…
we simply do not choose to say the “no’s” that we need to if truly cultivating lasting, deep relationships is a priority.
kinda like a boat: if we’ll slow down a bit, we’ll go a bit deeper (and it won’t sink us!).
Anne – as women, we were created for relationships. It is our purpose. Made in God’s image to fulfill what was missing in Adam’s life.
In today’s world we lose our focus behind duty and busyness. Surrounded by those who need us, we are lonely. We feel unappreciated and overworked. We do not nurture our relationships – we neglect our God given blessing.
i think as believers our “sin” is harder to face and i think that if we truly had true, real relationships with each other we’d have to be accountable and face those with each other.
with our “worldy” friends, we can hide a lot more.
that’s my take on it.
i hope you and i still real, cause i love you like a fat kid love cake. and rest is just geography.
Outside of just being busy, I’ve seen this lack of closeness surrounding young adults in my area. When they get together outside of church gatherings, the conversation only includes talk about coffee, music, fashion,& maybe something going on in the news, but never discussing what one came across in their devotional/prayer time that really stuck out to them or puzzled them. Those discussions to me bring real authenticity to a group. When our conversations never get around to the most important part of our soul, we are choosing to stay shallow.
In my experience, the majority of my grief came from so-called Christian friends/people from church, with the exception of probably about 10%.
It is influenced by many things. One group cared more about your mode of baptism more than caring for your friends (this itself is a whole ‘nother topic)…and I tried putting out a lot of time and energy into serving in a ministry in an effort to really connect with people and/or developing friendship. Two years with interacting with about 30-40 people, I managed to only be friends with less than five (read: the ones who really email you to see how you’re doing, pray for you, lunches, dinners, etc not the “hi how are you long time no see” kinda people).
Again, with the exception of a very few (Christian), friends that I know…some of my non-Christian friends are always available and when we discuss about things, they are way less judgemental than many of my so-called Christians. Sad…but it’s the reality.
I got ‘lectured’ by a misionary (who herself also drinks wine) and sent me a few bible verses, just because I wanted to invite her and everybody to my house for a potluck/wine party…I’m not a drunk by the way, I probably drink a glass a week (if any and only with people and dinner)…it’s things like this make me kinda tired of trying to establish friendships with so-called Christian.
I tried to also join a single’s group which the group itself has so much stigma attached to it. I also noticed that in that group, finding real friendships is even tougher, and many of the relationships are ‘activity’ based..meaning…you’ll only hang out when there’s a good game on TV, bowling together, watch movies together, but it’s very tough to move beyond doing stuff and getting to know each other.
OK..I’m sure I type some positive stuff somewhere in there lol
WOW. I can honestly say I am shocked by the question. The group of friends I hung out with, that all commited their lives to God around the same time over 20 yrs ago, are all still friends. My closest, longest and truest friends are the ones I made just after becoming a Christian. I find these friendships to be so much deeper and real. Maybe it’s just a generation gap, everyone I can think of has great meanigful friendships. I know for a fact that I have at least 5 friends of 10-20 yrs that would do absolutley anything for me and me for them. We stay in contact, share our lives, etc. I am sad to hear that this is an issue among your generation of believers.
Anne great post. YES i’ve experienced a lack of real “brothers/sisters”
–>http://blog.aaronhavens.com/?p=48#disqus_thread
i totally agree. i had this conversation with someone at lunch today…
i think it has to do with our sin, and the fact that we are scared to be “real” or “candid” because they will judge you, whereas someone in the world just loves you for you and will do the “sin” things with you.
as Christians i think we feel like we have to put on this facade that we are perfect, or near it. and being that way causes you to be fake which in turn effects your relationships…if you cant be real with someone then you probably wouldnt call them if you were in trouble…
not sure if my rambling made any sense. but that is what came out at 11.
when you find out let me know.
I pretty much agree with the things others have said, but I think I’d call it a pride issue. At least it has been in my experience.
I often fear opening up to my Christian friends because I don’t want them to see my sin. That’s straight pride.
The worst thing is, if I’m being prideful about my sin, then I really do need a butt-kicking. I need a friend to step up and say “that’s not cool”. And because I have awesome friends who do call me out on sin, I sometimes do try to hide things from them.
Jess xx
its simple. Friendships require vulnerability. Vulnerability requires trust and honesty. There is a growing population in Christianity, sadly I used to be one them, are neither trustworthy or honest.
Hey
This is a really good post!!… well in that I know what you mean. As a divorced single mother in the church for 20 years I still have no close friends. I spend most evenings alone and feel isolated and depressed alot of the time. I don’t know what it is about Christians but they seem to like to keep their distance from me…. Well as time has gone on I’ve noticed it’s the way they are with each other as well. I felt really left out and rejected but now I see it’s not that at all. Most Christians I know are quite ‘surface’ people even with each other.It’s like they have hidden boundaries between each other and each of them know that and know how far to go and how close to get!! Maybe I’m oversimplifying but this is how it’s been for me. As I got born again out of a normal ‘satanic’ society I just expected to have friends and lots of them in the church. Friendships that were even deeper that my non christian friends because we were brother and sister is Christ. I must have scared the hell out of the Christians I met!!!
Even now 20 years into my faith it’s my non christian, non church going friends who are there for me who are real honest and open with me who ring me up who cry with me laugh with me and disagree with me.
Christian people in my experience want to keep it all nice and safe and tidy! that’s why I can’t make real friendships with them…well thats my take on it all!!
God bless
Julie
Ok Anne, I’ve been praying you would write on this subject! Come on, write on!!! I can only relate as a Mom (& PW) and of course our kids were raised in a very close family ties (& when they finished their degrees in College) lurking around were the friends who at this time were married and well into active church attendance. At the same time, being so phoney, trying to win our daughter to the Lord, who knew more about the Bible than anyone….oh the put-downs and holier than thou art….when we all knew they were feeding off her intelligence, brilliant way of thinking (that’s a Mom’s brag) and money I might add….thus begins the MCD because we all held in the anger because of as you put it out there Julie, “keep it all nice and tidy”…ok ’nuff said; this is a super blog and gets my motor going. Our kids support us 1 kazillion percent and what it did actually was drew us closer as a family because our kids saw what we still go through what Kim said “Surrounded by those that need us.” And believe you me, they make their own choice this time to not have a relationship with friends who judged and condemned them. Again, as a Mom, I just listen to them and do not give advice because, Anne, it is sad and not right! I’m praying God will bless you for opening up such honest feelings. Love is all we need…..He is at work in all of us!
I think all the reasons listed above, authenticity, situational, honesty, transparency, busyness, etc. I think for me, I have become too self involved. My circle of friends is my husband and my dog. And two dear friends who live in another state. When we moved, I kept saying that this is a new season and a time to develop new (additional) friendships. However, I am too self involved to reach out. I use the excuse that I don’t have anything in common with the women I am in contact with (they have kids, they don’t work outside the home). But then again, who says you have to have anything in common. I was thinking about this yesterday and thought maybe I should be the one to make the call to set up coffee or lunch or some type of get together. Will I? I don’t know. Please pray and hold me accountable.
I think we’re too afraid to show the “real” us… we think we OUGHT to be one way… and we’re afraid of those around us finding out we’re not like that…
I think also the enemy would have us believe (at least for me) that if I rely so much on friends, I’m not relying on HIM… what a load of crap!
I say skrew it! Let’s open ourselves up to the greatest friendships we can have on this earth! Why shouldn’t we?
anne;
please don’t get me started crying this morning…. i live on a seminary campus – been here for over 18 months. IN the bubble. and the HARDEST thing i’ve had to deal with is the LACK of intimate, sharing, vulnerable relationships. the people are here, the “want to” is here, but the time and commitment is not really here.
still looking. i find it in small doses, which get me through the month…. but i haven’t found the week-in and week-out consistency yet.
thankfully, i have my husband and my Jesus
I think it’s more simple. It’s less of an example of “inability to open up” and more of an example of Christians finding it hard to be friends with people without some sort of “spiritual agenda”.
And because people hate agendas of any kind (especially agendas “for your own good) distance is preferable.
I think Amy speaks about the things that help us move out of these places of isolation. How often do I spend time with old friends who don’t currently choose to follow Christ? How often do I intentionally build time in my life and my schedule for the slow, winding conversation? How often do I spend time among the poor that God loves (who interestingly enough seem to understand closer relationships better)? How often do I share embarassing things with others without demanding they do so in return first?
After all, isn’t it our own response to these things that we have control over?
Anne,
Great post!
Julie’s response really resonated with me. I feel her pain. I was in her shoes for ten years after becoming a single again mom. Silly me, I thought that if I ever remarried friendships within the church with the ‘marrieds’ would come easily. That has not been the case. My hearts passion is single parents. It is a hard road to journey on and having friends and support is critical. I also believe that most Christians are as others have stated here, are more on the surface and really do not want to go deep.
We are all sinners. We all fail and have hardships. I wish more Christians would remove their masks and quit worrying about what people think and get authentic and real with one another.
as a christian, most christians simply turn me off. they live their life just as my non-christian friends do – they just spend a lot of time and effort hiding that fact. hey, no one is perfect and we (me) all sin – but why can’t christians just say “i’m a sinner, too” instead of working so hard to cover their stains?
they love material things, they always want more money to but more stuff, they are in tremendous debt, they ignore their families, their kids are better than yours, they help no one and give to nothing – you know, the kind that craig has been pounding on the head every sunday. he’s correct, LC and almost all other churches are falling victim to the ‘get more stuff’ theory – it’s kinda sad
I think the toughest thing for me is to intentionally develop relationships with non-believers.
We tend to try to surround ourselves with people who are like us because it makes us feel comfortable. But if we look at Jesus’ example we see he hung around the people who needed him the most…the tax collectors, the prostitutes, the broken.
I don’t think there’s an easy 123 answer. It just involves a commitment on our part to go out of our way every day to cultivate those relationships.
Brad Ruggles
http://www.bradruggles.com
It breaks my heart to read that some don’t have those kinds of friendships. It has to be intentional. It has to be a commitment and you’ve got to be vulnerable. I have dear, close friends that are Christ followers. They know ALL the dirt on me and have helped me brush it off. I pray all of you find those kinds of real friendships.
We love to stab each other in the back don’t we? There’s nothing more fulfilling then watching a friend fail. It will give you a sense of pride every time.
When Brandon and I moved to Cali., we made some of the closest friends we have ever had. We are all Christ followers and dealing with similar issues in ministry. They are like family and we can tell them anything. Then, we moved back to Oklahoma and there are so many people we know here! Some are more acquaintances, some are friends we will have forever. I admit that I am not as vulnerable with friends here like I was there. Maybe it’s because there I knew they were all we had?? Plus, being in the LC bubble makes it a little difficult, IMO. This is def. an area Brandon and I struggle with. We enjoy family time and it’s like a “retreat” so to speak so we tend to be hermits at times. Just being honest:)
Jess said it best above (at least in my opinion). “He who desires friends must show himself to be friendly.” That’s a loose quote of a verse in the bible. That would indicate that, in order to go deeper in relationships, we must be willing to be vulnerable and potentially open ourselves up to betrayal and hurt. I think this is one reason why blogging is so successful. We open up to complete strangers because we don’t have to deal with them face to face. I think deeper relationships, like great marriages, are a direct consequence of time and effort.
I think there is something to be said about those “early days”, when we were “innocent, naive”, so to speak. We opened our hearts up to each other with very little fear. We bonded in different ways.
When we get a little older we start focusing on other stuff, jobs, kids, spouses, yet in our hearts there is a cry for relationship!
My closest friends are still non-Christians. In my experience (this is a personal anecdote, so take it for what it is worth) there are several issues with making Christian friends.
1. Christians want to have it all together. They cant open up, cant ask for help, because you might see their sin.
2. Christians dont want to ask for help. Some of the time that strongest bonds are formed is in times of need. But this means admitting you need people.
3. Christians tend to be very judgmental. It makes us feel better about ourselves. Plus we argue (not debate, debate is a fun learning experience but everyone is still friends afterwards, I am talking about arguments where bad feelings spill over) over some of the dumbest things.
4. Christians in some circles seem to see something wrong with having close friends of the opposite sex.
5. Christians seem to always have an agenda of some kind in their friendships.
This is why all my closest friends are non-Christians.
Mike
I tend to be on my guard with Christian relationships. my trust issues with the “super-Christian” come from being seriously burned in the past. the real relationships I have are with people of similar beliefs, but with who we can all be real and know that we’re safe.
It amazes me when church people say that the world can’t have relationships as close as theirs. Many of them are lonely because their friendship ring only includes people from their small group and they don’t make time for relationships with people outside the church. My unchurched friends were my closest friendships as well.
I’m with Carole on this one. My closest friends are the one who share my faith. I have a hard time forming deep relationships with people who aren’t Christians because we center our lives around very different things … it’s hard to connect on any level of depth when the foundation and orientation are so different.
I personally think it’s the busiest of life that prevents us from forming those deep friendships within the church. We are all so busy doing, in ministry, and, combined with family, work and whatnot, it’s plain hard making new friends. Especially the relationships that really encourage and let you be free to be your true self. I feel it all the time when I miss a Sunday – did anyone miss me?
This is my first time to comment, Ann. I enjoy your blog; not been here long. Found you through the Compassion website.
I think you have to let go of being “Christian friends” and be “friends.” If you’re Christian, you’ll have a supportive, uplifting Christian friendship. But too often “Christian friendships” turn into judgmental friendships in which the participants try their best to hide their hurt, sins, flaws. My closest friendships were always with my non-Christian friends until I let go of the fact that my Christian friends weren’t perfect, either. We didn’t need to have the perfect friendship in which we were always perfect, too. We could be friends… and Christians.
I hear ya!! Great post and some great responses here. I think this is the crux of one of the western church’s foundational issues, i.e. how do we as believers connect outside of a service/experience in a way that helps develop life giving relationship that actually mean something.
Here’s my thought: When you are “in the world” one tends to have a huge pool of people to draw from as potential friends, and so you can be picky and you can find your niche within whatever “group” you want to hang out with (as you mentioned, your musican friends, your yuppie friends, etc.) However when you then placed in a subset of people that are Christ followers you are now to find your same niche but in a much smaller sample size. Therefore, if you are a married couple, go to a couples group and hope that you find someone that thinks somewhat remotley like the way you do and latch on!! Or if you’re single, or if your elderly, or if your a teen…
It’s the same problem that christian radio has going today. When you are a heathen (j/k) and listening to whatever, you have a dedicated station for that whatever you want to listen to (rock, country, sports, etc.) However if you are a Christ follower and feel that you should only listen to Christian radio you have only a few stations to choose from, and you better hope that you like Amy Grant because you’ll have to troll through her stuff just to get to a song you might actually connect with.
I don’t think you can truly have just Christian relationships, and I don’t think God has called us to that. And not that we reach out an have those “missionary friendships” either. Why can’t we just connect with people and be what Christ has taught us to be, a light into the world?
Yes, yes, and yes. People are hitting it right on. Being a “good Christian” inhibits our created need to know and be known below the surface. In the name of “supposed to” or “aught to” we stifle who we actually are meant to be, with all our flaws and inherent humanity visible to each other.
I’m sure you address something similar in your book, Mrs. J, but this loneliness and the depression it can bring seem to be especially potent with those in ministry work. As worship dude, there have been many, many, many times over the past few years that I’ve wanted to just explode in a rain of confession or some other form of brutal honesty. When I asked my pastor if such were ever his own heart, he replied with a chuckle and “no”. As if my desire for transparency or help were invalid. Ouch.
His take on it, though seemingly noble, still trips me up (among other broken places from the past, I’m sure), affecting my ability to form real relationships. His take on it is that he can’t confess openly, be real, be exposed… because he can’t taint the message he brings with too many of his personal struggles. I agree to an extent, because Mr. Congregant on Sunday morning might be thinking more about the speaker or teacher or singer’s revelation about their struggle with lust or what have you… than the God being explored or worshipped.
So the fights go deeper, into more secret places, unable to be dealt with until finally you just break down and end up in counseling or right back into old crowds and bad habits because there seems to be no one you can be comfortable and honest with in your church crowd.
Or maybe that’s just me.
I didn’t mean to turn this into a confessional booth, either (sorry, kind of).
Friends and a common mission are different things… sometimes… people with a common mission are also friends- that builds tight bonds. It’s why addicts who succeed in getting clean and sober stick with 12 Step Groups – they use to have a common mission of getting high – transitioned to a common mission of getting and staying clean and sober. Almost always requires “new playgrounds, new playmates.” Sometimes when we miss people, or a certain “time” in our life- it’s the common mission and shared challenges we miss- whether it was having our first kid, getting our first real job, or stepping out into some scary task for God together- as much as it is the people. The people we miss were part and parcel to our mission and our moment… and now the moments gone… and we forget all about Lot’s wife. Whether it’s building a new business, a new church, a new family, a new life… the people who walk the same road with us – same mission at the same time – though they may be extremely different from us, stick. It’s a family thing. It’s how preacher’s come up with catchy phrases like “the vision community,” etc… I’ve discovered that few people have said it better than Dr. Buckeroo Bonzai: “Wherever you go, there you are.” If you’ve found joy with people in one moment, you will in another, continue to be you. May not be the same people or same mission but it’s The Way God made us. Enjoyed your blog. Thanks
Eric
My answer mirrors a few of the other comments already made but apparently I love to see my own typing because I’m going to comment anyway.
I think sometimes we as Christians get so caught up in ‘doing’ ministry that we forget that we need to be ‘ministered’ to. I believe it’s mentioned in the book “The Five Love Languages”, we all have a love tank that needs to be filled. We get so busy filling other people’s ‘tank’ that by the time we realize we’re on empty, we’re on empty. Too exhausted to put any effort into relationships. And to be honest, it takes A LOT of effort to build a real relationship.
Dang Eric…touche!!! I love it!!
Y’all aliens are so amusing on this topic. Is it really that hard to remember? Before you got all “saved” you didn’t judge your friends. They were your friends and you were theirs because you made each other family of choice. Now that you are all “saved”, they just don’t live up to your standards of “hang out with” anymore. The most amusing part of this was when you said they would rush to your aid if you “needed them”. Can you say the same? Any of you? If not, is it because you’re afraid of finding out when the “needed them” moment is, or what it might cost you? Sacrifice is such a fascinating word, don’t you think? What would you have to sacrifice as aliens to have these same type of “strongest most intimate bonds” friendship with your alien friends?
“Isn’t it ironic … don’t you think ?”
ok jimmy your blog got some scary pictures…but, you got a very good point in your post.
Thanks Yonas. I linked my “scary” blog that time because I was in a very frightened mood. I wish I could take pictures that good. Here’s my happy happy joy joy blog link. (grin)