If you’ve read my blog for any amount of time, you’ll know the tension I feel between how much “business” should be incorporated in our church organization structure. I was reading over on my buddy Los’ blog, and he has this great quote:
Mark Dever, in A Display of God’s Glory, quotes the interaction of a Japanese businessman with a visiting Australian…
“…Whenever I meet a Buddhist leader, I meet a holy man. Whenever I meet a Christian leader, I meet a manager…” (originally from reformissionary)
Please do not read this as a cynical jab at gifted administrators and managers. Biblically, people with those gifts are integral to the Church’s survival. But obviously, the outside world often perceives the church as a machine.
I’d love to hear your thoughts on this…
1. Do you think churches have always focused on leadership & management the way they do now, or is it because of the increase of media attention & technology?
2. Have you ever been to a church leadership conference? What did you walk away with?
3. Are we too busy worrying about leadership and in doing so, neglecting our call to follow?
Comments
18 responses to “Follow the Leader”
i think that the small group idea negates a lot of the bad image of our modern churches. each small group is a mini church within itself and the administrative and leadership burdens are usually shared by member of the group or rotated between members.
That allows the greater body of the church to have the required leaders, managers, and administrators to function for the church as a whole while leaving the real business of reaching people and ministering to others to the smaller groups that can stay more focused on what we as Christians are called to do.
Churches have been run like businesses for too long and it has taken away from our influence. But then there is a lot of bias against Christians for reasons other than this that I believe many people allow to shade their JUDGEMENT of us in all areas.
L,r
whoah. how deep can we go?
1. Yes, they have. A brief history of christianity will show that the christian church has ALWAYS operated this way. We can start with the early Church, where central leadership was based in antioch where after Jesus’ ascension to heaven the disciple set up base to spread the Word. The disciples were the leaders and questions that could not be answered by local leaders(appointed by missionaries and apostles), or visiting apostles, were forwarded on to Peter, James, and the other leaders(see Paul’s letters to the Romans and Galatians for examples). This structure was modified with the formation of the Catholic church(yes they’re christians too). Pope being the CEO, with arch bishops and bishops being executives, priests being managers, and monks and nuns being the bulk of the work force. With the rise of the protestant churches, the power became somewhat decentralized. But being a minority, they had to have some sort of organization to help protect themselves from persecution by the Catholics, and to pool resources for struggling congregations. This became what we see today in the individual churches of Pastor, department ministers, deacons, lay leaders. As small congregations became large and new churches were started we discovered that we could better spread the Word(our product) by consolidating our individual efforts under Mission boards and Church associations. These are most prominent in the baptist community and the resulting pentecostal offshoots of it. For 2000 years, while opinions, faith, and message have evolved some, the leadership and management of the Christian church has remained fairly constant. From time to time we see churches pop up that don’t quite fit that mold, but they seldom survive.
2. I had the joy growing up to accompany my father to Glorietta, NM a few summers back in the late eighties and nineties while he taught the MasterLife workshops. I attended quite a few youth leadership conferences and it would take hours to list all of the things I came away with. On the positive side I always came away feeling refreshed in my faith and with a renewed vigor for Christ. We were given so many examples of the good leadership qualities that Christ and many of the disciples and apostles of the early church had. The most important thing we got were chances to deal with real issues that pertained to our times and how to help lead and counsel our peers, both non-christian and christian alike, through struggles that were most common for young adults of my day. Unfortunately I also came away with a lot of instruction on how the bible instructs us to structure leadership in a church. Who can and can’t be a pastor, minister, deacon, and what roles they play in the day to day operations of the church. I always found it odd that most of it was stuff that any business major could do.
3. Whose call to follow? If you are called by the Lord to lead, then lead. If you are called by the Lord to follow, then follow. The bible tells us that it is not always those with the most faith who are called to lead. Nor is it always the one who is most organized. The responsibilities of church leadership is to nurture the church body. I like the analogy of the Head taking the “daily bread” and giving to the Stomach, so that it may nourish the Body. Jesus charged those that he appoints as leaders with a great responsibility(Luke 19:11-26). While all christians are charged to serve, and be living examples of God’s love here on Earth, few are charged to lead.
Mini church groups are great and allow for the greater body of the church to actively minister to others. I don’t think our influence is hurt as much by running the church like a business as it is the way the church treats it as a business. I was 15 when I walked into my first church that didn’t have a numbers board, or print the weekly attendance and tithe in the weekly bulletin. And since I had attended church from birth, that’s a long time. The church that did that? met in an Elementary school cafeteria. I believe our influence in the last 20 years has been most negatively affected by those who claim to act on the behalf of all christians and then make foolish statements, or do stupid things. A good example was the bombing of abortion clinics, and attacks on doctors throughout the nineties. The scandal with the catholic priests. The publics scrutiny of the bad makes those of us who are good have to be that much more careful about how we share our faith with others so as to show them that what you see in the media isn’t what it’s all about.
Anne,
Great questions! I’ll answer in order from my experiences which may or may not be mainstream.
1. I believe the hype on leadership recently is due to technology and media to some degree however I believe that churches are in a race to try to outsmart the next in order to draw the crowds their way. I know the younger generation senses this and that’s why the rigid church structure and extensive lines of leadership seems overkill to them.
2. The best leadership class, not seminar, I’ve had was in seminary and the topics covered were the OT leaders. There is a world of knowledge in the Bible that is virtually unused by modern day churches. However, I will say I’m looking forward to the Origins conference with Mosaic Church.
3. I do believe some churches do worry about leadership too much and overstaff themselves. Others don’t bring on enough leadership. I do believe that the Biblical model of servanthood leadership is much needed in the church today. We have too many church leaders looking to fulfil their personal goals and then there are others looking to fulfil the needs of the “saved” rather than the “lost.”
So, my dilemma is how much is enough. Where is the line when it comes to marketing and media when it comes to reaching a lost world? I’m not sure. I try not to judge those churches that, for example, drop easter eggs from a helicopter but on the other hand I find it hard not to judge those churches that refuse to give anything away. Let’s face it…leadership IS important.
I love reading the well thought through comments on your blog…you have friends who are not afraid to take time to contemplate and share ideas. I’m not sure which I like better…your blog, or your well developed comment section! (>>>One in the same!).
First, not to diverge from your questions, but to Russell’s awesome historical journey–thanks! Thought I’d try to expound a bit on one point…not all Catholics are Christians. First, a startling majority are just “Catholic” because their family are “Catholic”. A religion, but not a “saving” relationship with Jesus Christ. Second, some traditional Catholics still look to a priest as their go-between who speaks to them for God in confessions, and that person (priest) gives them God’s instructions in penance.
In that case, Jesus Christ is not being glorified as our Great High Priest and Intercessor who has torn the veil and allowed us our own personal conversation and access to God. In this case, the Catholic is not a Christian. A Catholic can become saved by placing their faith in Christ, God’s son, through whom we have access to God ourselves. I have many friends in this category. “Catholic” in and of itself would not make this distinction. Just as there are traditional Jews who are unsaved, and saved Jews who have now received Christ. That was a bit long, but for the reader who may not know…forgive me.
I was wondering if Anne’s question as a marketer might be rooted in how important is the IMAGE of leadership is? I think we’d all agree that TRUE leading/ leadership/learning to TRULY lead are important. I think I’ll go that route just for the fun of it.
God chooses leaders to fulfill the purpose for which he has called them. Some, like David, were handsome, charastmatic, tall, bronzed, poetic, strong, tender-hearted, brave…they had it all going on, though fallible, as all leaders are. The people esteemed that, and needed that in a leader. So, that’s what God chose.
In Paul, he chose someone wirey and lanky, without gracious or strong speaking skills, someone with a past. He wanted the church, at that time, to know most that his power is made perfect in weakness. And he led well. As a servant.
Do we sometimes, in churches, assume that the David is the best prototype? If not in our conferences, in our imaginations. If only we had….one type of leader that will draw people.
Perhaps in GenX churches, someone young with bleached hair, a tattoo, going against the grain, able to the relate to the culture.
Depends on how God wants to grow our body. Only He knows. Only He knows what is most needed in our geographic area. He knows who will become TRUE DISCIPLES a result of any type of leadership. That’s what he wants and needs–not masses, but disciples. Just getting people there does not ensure they will become disciples of Jesus Christ. They may become just a follower of “Apollos”. (New Testament “rival” to Paul).
So, yeah, leadership circles around to obedience…being true to your calling individually and that of your church as God leads without comparing yourself to growing churches in happening places. He teaches us to try to pull people to a new and different kind of church that is not legalistic or boring or dry…and to do that, we have to market in minid of the risk of glorifying “self” over Him. I think because of our history of judging and boring people…we have to market a new image to have any hope of reaching my generation. They very much want to know initially, “What’s in it for me?” We have to meet them at the point of their need. Hopefully, we grow them beyond that mentality in discipleship while we have them there.
Conferences? I get out of it the Moses factor. I get to sit in services and see the same fallibility and challenges we have. I guess in the wear and tear of leading, I become convinced that at a mega church these issues are fine tuned and ministry is easy…leading is easy. People are faithful. “Stuff” doesn’t bog the thing down. No….they are just “doing it”, too. Same burn out. Same stress. Just a passion there I need to revisit.
Stop making excuses, griping, stop being afraid to give my best…and go at it. Be bold. Shine. We get afraid of our own weakness too often. Gives us an opportunity to be served and refreshed.
Wwisdom verse that says, “He who refreshes others WILL he himself be refreshed.” I’m proud of churches who prioritize the building of Christian leaders across the nation.
To close: Jesus begged Peter to do one thing for him as a testimony to Peter’s love for Jesus. “FEED MY SHEEP”. Ever read that evangelism model that takes us back to people as sheep? In that, sheep wander aimlessly right into ditches with nothing to follow. Otherwise, they tend to follow whatever is moving in front of them. They have an innate need to follow SOMETHING–ANYTHING. Media is leading. I think that’s why marketing leadershiop is critical. We have to put ourselves in front of people as much as we can, hoping we can be the thing they follow. Not to out-do the other church.
I’m not sure that always mentioning our particular church is necessary or beneficial. We need to get the truth out there. Most of those doing it in media cloud the truth with hype and mysticism. We are failing as a global church at media. Don’t back down or doubt the calling you have. Don’t you think this is why the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has a growing following across our country, though they do not teach the truth of Christ as Messiah….great heart warming national commericals just stating what they have to offer.
Yes, missions is imporant, serving, using money wisely…but we need a media surge to reach people in this country.
Press on hard!
Hey,
i saw your post on Relevants message board and saw that you were from Texas and you do design and share both those things. I’m a 20 something too.
A. not hitting on you
B. I live in Arlington
C. Currently i’m in Wales till august
D. I love print design
E. I think this is just a fellow Texan saying hi due to common interests like God, design, and um…relevance?
Anyway, Hi
Right now i’m missing Chili’s, enchiladas and The Gypsy tea room.
Wow! I will bring my comment, but there’s been a lot said already…and said very well. This topic strikes a chord with me. Leadership in the church is a passion that burns really close to my heart. I LOVE talking, writing and thinking on it…so, here we go.
In response to your questions:
1. We’ve seen already in the responses of other folks that leadership and management in the church has been around for a while. That is simply because, as something grows large – encompassing hundreds of thousands of people – you need some sort of organization. For any organization to remain true to its purpose, there needs to be some sort of organization.
I do, however, think that the way the church goes about leadership and organization has drastically changed. It has to have, the church has grown wildly beyond what it was in the beginning. Not only that, but the world in which the church is carrying out her mission has changed and evolved wildly. So, I think there have been many, many changes; some good, some vital, some terrible.
As of late, I think that the influx of technology and media attention (good and bad) has applied some pressure to the way the church operates. I don’t think that everything the church does in leadership is right. But, we’re broken people…broken people who are largely trying to figure things out by the grace of Christ. We’ll be growing and developing in this as long as our world is expanding and changing.
2. I’ve been to a handful of church leadership conferences. Largely, I have enjoyed them. I usually come away having learned something that I didn’t know about God, life, myself, people, and being a faithful and God-honoring leader.
I’m always quick to criticize…you know…based on all of my leadership experience and expertise…
I criticize leadership conferences based on the line we walk in church. The line is the ever elusive balance between being a community that exists united by our faith in Christ and having to work in an environment that must be organized and, to a certain extent, business like. I’ll address that more in a minute.
3. I think that we absolutely can get too busy pursuing good leadership that we forget what’s really important. But I don’t think that’s a problem solely found in leadership and people who are passionate about the subject. People can get caught up in anything- art, cars, music, architecture, environmental protection, fill in the blank… When any Christ-follower has a strong passion, there’s a battle that goes on deep in their heart. Anything can sit on the throne of our soul. That’s the battle you choose to fight when you pursue your passion. As soon as anything other than Christ sits on the proverbial throne of our souls, we’re too busy and neglecting the call we have to follow.
Crap…I hope this isn’t too long.
Back to my earlier thought…There is a balance we have to seek in the church; between following Christ the way we’re called to and not turning a blind eye to excellence in leadership and management that’s found in places other than the church.
I HIGHLY recommend a book by a guy named George Cladis. The book is Leading the Team-Based Church. In his book, he dicusses the balance we are to seek…how we are called to model a trinitarian community in the orgainization of the church.
The idea is this: leadership should look different in the church than it does in the business world. We are a different community and we miss the boat if we aren’t modeling a community of faith in every level of the church – from senior leadership to pre-schoolers on a Sunday morning.
We don’t have it figured out. Maybe part of figuring it out is to understand that very truth. But, we’ve got to strive for excellence in honor of Christ. I think that excellence is found in sharp, effective leadership that models a community unified by our faith in Christ. I’m still learning what that means and what that looks like…by God’s grace, I won’t screw it up too badly.
I’ll make my comment short…
Churches have become just like any other big business, and they do what they do in order to survive. Marketing, videos, etc. to attract the in-crowds.
Hey Anne,
I wanted to know if you could give me the link to the Relevant article you submitted. Pretty please? :)
Jessica
the relevant article is up?! yes, please post the link…
Not up yet….I will post when it is :) Thanks for hanging in there – busy week.
Much love, homies.
Anne is a dusty flower.
Dusty flower is Anne.
Crusty flowers are worse than dusty flowers.
Wow, a lot of good info.
Thanks for the info mewhoelse, but on your correction of catholics and christians I have to disagree. In the end this all boils down to how you define a christian. Individuals aside as a whole the Catholics believe that Christ died on the cross so that we may be forgiven. As a relegion buff I’ve found that, accross the board, how we go about being forgiven differs from faith to faith. From Catholic, to Episcopal, to Methodist, to Seventh Day, toLutheran, to Baptist, to Pentecostal. Methodology may differ, but the fundamentals of Christianity are present. To Catholics, it’s not enough to confess your sins to God. James 5:16 says “Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.” The Catholic church used this verse specifically to create what we see today as confession. Their preists symbolize the “righteous man” whose powerful and effective prayer we all need to be healed. Catholics pray and take communion like Christians, and anyone can walk into a Catholic church and see how much they glorify the fact that Christ died.
As to the Jews that you speak of, there are those that acknowledge Christ as the Messiah, and those who do not. Those who do are more commonly referred to as Zionists in the jewish community. But in the minds of many Jews, and some Christian scholars, they are still God’s chosen who receive the gift of heaven by birth and can only lose that gift by violation of the laws of Moses. I can’t recall in my readings of the bible, a place where it says that the Israelites are now barred from heaven without the salvation that can only be given by Christ. Not to say I didn’t miss it somewhere, just that I can’t recall. I do know that the Bible tells us that because the Israelites rejected God so many times, He sent Jesus to take his grace to the other peoples of the Earth. This is why it is only through Jesus that we are saved. Many Zionists believe however, that by rejecting Christ as the Messiah, that those Jews are also rejecting God. But I think that’s a whole different discussion.
Klint, great post, but I don’t think there have been as many drastic changes in the organization of the church over the years. Some drastic leadership changes, for sure. This actually ties into my earlier comment about how one defines Christianity. Those religions or faiths that I mentioned in my first paragraph, sorry if I left anyone out, came about largely because of leadership disagreements. Episcopals are the result of Henry the 8th v the Pope. Seventh Day adventists are basically Zionists who decided to go back to worshipping on the original Sabbath versus the day of the week Christ was ressurected. Lutherans are those who felt that Martin Luther had the correct unterpretation of the bible and not the Catholics and Episcopals. Baptists are those who liked the Lutherans’ ideas but didn’t agree with all of the execution. Pentecostals are Baptists who felt that the church needed a makeover to be more mainstream and contemporary. The differences in organization are small, as noted in my last post. But organization and leadership are two separate entities.
I apologize for any errors in my information, it’s 3:30am and I’m largely going by memory. And my interperetation of the facts is subject to change if any of that info is incorrect. Thanks for anyone who takes the time to read my rambling.
Thanks for the dialogue Russell. This raises some good questions for me. A bit unrelated to the post so I won’t go to deep. Buy, do we not show good leadership in teaching one another…true leading.
Question: of the role of penance for the Catholic…not a
common practice? TV leads me to believe so, but perhaps TV is stereotypical rather than factual. Someone correct my working perception. Yes, confession is valid.
As to Jews, yes, two groups. (I’m no scholar by any stretch of the imagination or interpretation…just a student…just learning.) no one was perfect in keeping the law but Jesus–the only one sinless. Singling out even the law of Moses as a core, as Jesus interpreted the law, the Law could not be kept perfectly according to the requirements, which was why they needed Jesus to free them from the weight of it. It was only a tutor leading them to Christ, not salvation in itself. I believe it lines up scripture so far for me to believe they could be saved by their faith in Christ and the prophecies of Christ up until his coming. But, after He came and they rejected him as the Messiah, he turned to the Gentiles hoping their testimony could save them. We have a staggering responsbility to lead non-Christian Jews to Christ. By “the Israelites”, I assume you refer to those who were Jews prior to Jesus? I think they were still saved by faith in Christ, not by their works, or necessarily by their choseness alone, as they may have presumed. The sacrifices covered their sin until Christ. I would agree with that from what I know about the Bible, though not a scholar.
You know, Jesus took the law to a much deeper level than they had narrowed it to in their external judgments. “Committing adultery” was not just the physical act, but committing the act in the heart. Hating your brothe” was essentially the same as “murdering him”. “Worshipping God only” was not just leaving external idols, but also putting him first in the heart. “Not coveting” included loving your neighbor as yourself.
Okay, back to Rusty Anne. I mean, Dusty. or was it Crusty?
Good evening.
I do believe, as you do, that poo is formed in an egg inside your heart. Although i do not believe that this egg breaks. I think that this poo egg is always inside of you at all times and what comes out is just the poo eggs feces. Like business in churchs. They all have it. It’s just that some of these churches “crunchy good” poo eggs poo a lot more than thay should!
Get my pooooooint.
Did you know your only 5 years older than me!
XOXO
~Jonny
YOU ARE THE COOLEST! AND I MISS YOU AND CHRIS SOOOOO MUCH! I CAN’T WAIT TO SEE YOU GUYS IN A FEW WEEKS! LOVE YOU BOTH!
DANIEL
i don’t really have much to add to this great discussion.
i’m on a church staff and in a ‘leadership’ role (so i’m about to challenge my right to a job!) and i’ve been to great church/leadership conferences and always taken good stuff away w/ me …… but —
having said that, i think we sometimes get so caught up in organizational infrastructure of the church that we forget or minimize the fundamental command to love and serve others as the way to lead them to Christ.
pretty simple, i know ….
Good questions, and I’m torn on how they should be answered. First, let me give you a definition of leadership I heard yesterday: Leadership is influence. If you have influence on someone, you’re a leader, whether you like it or not. Given that definition, we’d all do better at developing the leadership skills within us – or our God-given talents/gifts that He wishes us to use to advance the kingdom (or be “on mission).
1. Do you think churches have always focused on leadership & management the way they do now, or is it because of the increase of media attention & technology?
From my perspective, most churches I attended growing up didn’t focus enough on leadership from a lay person’s perspective. We were never taught how to lead others, but we were taught how to follow – blindly, I might add. We were beaten up with “man of God” and “stretching not your hand against the Lord’s annointed” sermons weekly. Leadership was something the pastor did. Everyone else followed. So, to attend churches that encouraged you to develop leadership skills was a breath of fresh air for me. Even as preparation for being a pastor’s wife, I was taught only to look a certain way or act a certain way, but never how to develop my giftedness. Leadership focus as it is now has probably sprung from current media inspection of successful organizations and how they function. But the bibe does give specific qualifications for leadership behavior. It’s quite different than one might think it should be though, with words like meekness, patience, servant, kindness,and love included in the list.
2. Have you ever been to a church leadership conference? What did you walk away with? I attended Willow Creek’s Leadership Summit 4 years ago. I walked away with a great deal more than I expected. The sessions gave me hope and inspired me. I’d elaborate, but I need to make coffee and go to work :-)
3. Are we too busy worrying about leadership and in doing so, neglecting our call to follow? The call to follow is key – servant leadership is Christ’s model. I feel that if we are always keeping our eyes on the mission God’s called us to being very aware of those who are influenced by us, we will become better leaders.
This is off the top of my head – and from my heart – reactions to your questions. I wish I had more time to formulate a thesis, but gotta go to work.
I love the way you think.