I got this in an email from a friend of mine today. Wise words from a someone who’s not old enough to vote. :)
“The church will continue to lose people from the next generation if the don’t incorporate their visions into worshiping the God of all generations. That doesn’t mean just trying something “slightly edgy” every once in a while. It means grasping the way the young culture worships God, and transforming the picture of what “church” looks like. God is going to stay the same through all of it. It doesn’t matter if we’re worshipping in a new and different way so long as God’s getting the Glory.”
Comments
37 responses to “When did 17 year olds become so smart?”
yep – she’s smart that one.
i believe that children are our future… :)
but seriously, we should listen to teens more…
AMEN!
Now here’s the quandry. The church isn’t made up solely of young people. It’s a family of multiple tastes, styles, preferences, etc. How do we reach out to younger generations in a meaningful way and continue to feed the multi-generational family we have?
Should the sole focus be on the younger people? Are we realizing our mission when we look beyond our own “old age” tastes and give them up for the sake of reaching the 20-somethings?
How do we discover what “resonates” with the younger generation?
So many questions about how we fulfill our purpose as a church, including reaching those in their formative stages.
I wish I could just sit and listen to you and your friends for several hours to find some answers.
I beleive that discovering what “resonates” with the younger generation lies in listening to their vision for the church, their ideas about worship, and like anyone else, who God is to them. these are important questions that are either being over looked or asked solely for the sake of asking, and not for the purpose of really trying to see more of God in the person of Generation you are seeking an answer form. whenever there’s a community (a group, more than one person) there will be compromise. it’s not just focusing on one group or the other, because each one has an extremely significant value to the body of Christ.
Beth, I see your point and Tracy, I agree :) A gathering can be and is often comprised of all generations. I think firstly, all the age groups should understand the signifigance of the other age group. And Biblically, I think some of the older, more mature believers should be concerned with leading, mentoring, teaching, and helping inspire the younger generation (both in age AND spirituality), so when they are mature, the cycle can continue.
I am seeing a trend among friends and those slightly younger than myself, where people are starting to “see through” the lip service of making “edgier” services with darker lighting and heavier guitar distortion in worship music. They are realizing a cool environment, although it may help draw them in initially, does not equal a more meaningful coporate experience with God, nor does it provide instruction for how to develop lifestyles into continual communion with God.
i think your last point is key, Anne. in addition, i believe worship begins in the heart. it must be practiced individually before it can be expressed corporately.
so often we limit our discussions of ‘worship’ to our musical preferences in the corporate setting. when we do, we must acknowledge that we will then most certainly have some percentage of the group who is not being ‘ministered to’ by the musical style. the odds are simply against it…
So, to echo what has been previously said, it is imperative for the body of Christ to reach beyond ‘whats in it for me’ and embrace those who have different stylistic preferences. If those of us who are ‘older’ do not recognize this, our stubborness belies any claim we make to want to reach the next generation.
having said all that, i go back to my earlier statement that worship does NOT equal music. we worship with our lives. when we gather corporately, music is simply one way we can unify our expression.
maybe part of the way we are ‘living sacrifices’ is a willingness to be open to and share these experience with others rather than to focus on personal preferences – we can learn from each other. (and i’m speaking to ALL age-groups/musical preferences here) we are a ‘body’ after all, and worship is our expression of gratitude to God for who He is and what He has done.
sorry about all the typos …. :)
i concur. a cool environment can be intriguing, which is good for those who “aren’t into the whole church thing”, or for those just seeking the claims of Christ, but what is that doing for the many people in the church who have grown past that point. how do we develop a service that fosters a deep and meaningful “corporate” experience with God and give relevant directions on how be in “continual communion” with God? (by the way anne, i love the way that you phrased that!) I think we need to begin by scrapping the restricions that have been there (although often unsaid or unwritten) for so long. I think we need to move outside of what has always been and ask what does God have instore for today’s church that we’ve been to afraid to consider. Worship has NOTHING to do with what those outside of the church (or even those inside the church) will say about how you or the church decide to glorify God. One of the purposes of the church is outreach(expanding the Kingdom of God) but the church itself isn’t for those who don’t believe in Christ and His story. It’s for the body of Christ composed of his disciples. I think it’s time to start paying more attention to all of the disciples and how we can learn from and relate to them, and less about what the “crowd” is going to say when we begin to worship him in new and maybe even bolder ways.
Thanks so much for the comments, Kris!
Do you think (generally speaking) the mindset of the American local church has been focused on soley meeting needs and not truly equpping the body for a lifestyle of worship?
Tracy, you need to write a book or something. Seriously, you have been blowing my mind these last couple of days!
You are SOOOO dead on. The church is made up of a body of believers who need to reach out (as you said) to those who are not yet Christ-followers. Within the church, there should be fellowship with other believers and worship – AND equpping in how to serve in the body, beyond the body, as well as discipleship, so we can then equip newer Christ-followers for the life God wants for them!
So often, we have fallen victim of the “build it and they will come” mentality, which we allow to supercede the “reaching out” examples that make up so much of the NT church. (On a personal note, next time you babysit for Tim & Randi, talk to Tim about this – he has some great thoughts!)
BTW, Tracy, what were you doing up at 4:22am!?
i will discuss more later, but if i don’t study for my anatomy test now…well, lets just say my mama won’t be happy
and when mama ain’t happy, aint NOBODY happy!
oh, i got up at 4:20 this morning so i could have my QT before i left for the gym aroud 5:15. i know, i’m rediculous
i do. it’s something i’ve really been working through lately. i wonder, when did the words ‘worship’ and ‘music’ become interchangeable? (not being sarcastic here – i really am trying to figure that out … i’m a worship leader, by the way, so i don’t take any of this lightly!)
I’ve been challenged by Romans 12:1 and the whole idea of what it means to be a ‘living sacrifice’ – and how do i express my ‘spiritual act of worship.’
w/out taking up 3 web-pages, i will attempt to answer to your question by saying i think the way we currently ‘do church’ has more to do w/ culture and the traditions of how people began to behave when they started gathering corporately, than it has to do with worship. (obviously that is a gross generalization which probably requires more explanation, but hopefully you won’t judge me too harshly for what i’m TRY-ing to say!)
i don’t mean we aren’t worshipping, exactly, but that if you really look for the roots of why we do the things we do, i suspect they aren’t necessarily as much ‘biblical’ as they are ‘habitual.’ they aren’t bad or wrong per se, but are we allowing ourselves to get hung up on things that don’t matter – in a kingdom perspective?
I don’t know that i have any answers, but i have alot of questions and it seems i’m meeting more people every day who are on a similar journey to mine.
i agree with you kris and ask the same questions myself. i’ve always had this kind of (for lack of better words) icky feeling when people say religion, or ask “are you religious?” now, as i grow up, i begin to see the church being more about religion than i thought and that scares me. It is supposed to be about Christ and our relationships with him (both personal and as a whole body) and the rituals, i’m almost postitive are not what God sees as worship. Not that worship doesn’t happen through those(as you said) but i do believe in many ways we serve and unperdictable God, and i don’t think our predictable “worship” sufices sometimes. (not strictly regarding music)
Maybe what we’re lacking most is passion
‘Do you think (generally speaking) the mindset of the American local church has been focused on soley meeting needs and not truly equpping the body for a lifestyle of worship?’
anne–that question is so right on it’s insane. it’s something i’ve been pondering a lot lately, as a worship leader… especially since i think we ‘need’ worship, as much as God desires (not needs) to be worshipped… yet we need to be reminded that it’s not about us. agh. it’s such a quandary. but it comes down to how can we best serve others in helping foster a lifestyle of worship.
fascinating thoughts…
wow, that’s great!! glad my movie added a little supsense to your day. :)
Something just came to mind after reading all of this. In the business world, often when someone is retiring, they raise up a protege of sorts to take their place. They invest their time and knowledge into them to take their place when they leave. They spent their entire careers in that position and they want to make sure it isn’t dropped like a hot rock when they move on.
You don’t often find that in churches. A pastor leaves…a new one is brought in not at the old pastors request, but with a better resume…a better worship pastor with him…a better tithing record under his belt.
What would it look like if in churches we raised up the youth with the foresight that one day this 6, 12, 18 year old will be running this church and all of it’s members? Would we teach the kids to listen to their elders instead of knocking down everything about them? And would we teach the elders that one day your youth will run this church…teach them well…and give them respect as you expect it.
Just a thought…don’t know that it is an answer to your questions. Hope you are having a good Monday.
Hey Anne,
Great discussion going on here. I wish I had the head-space right now to jump into it!
I actually just popped by because I was using my painfully old version of photoshop to marry together caffeine and old medical illustrations last week. For some reason I thought of you.
They are the first and last pic in my most recent blog entry for Stir (the young adult ministry I started this Fall at Riverwood):
http://stirwood.blogspot.com
cheers,
Greg
Kris is dead on.
I had this discussion at our “coffehouse” event the other day with a much older man. We agreed that worship is more than singing. It’s a lifestyle that reflects the glory of God and praises Him in every action.
I think most young people are looking for real and have far more respect for imperfect churches who are real and fervently seeking God’s imprint to be revealed to everyone who looks at them. They don’t see it in the slickness. And while the slick packages are really cool, if they are the end rather than a way to get to the end, the current 20 something generation sees through it.
as anne and beth have both said, i as well think that the younger generation is earnestly seeking out truth and seeing through the “cool package”, not what others around them think or believe to be true, but seeking God’s truth for themselves. In that, they are willling and wanting to look past the package to the heart of the church and the heart of worship. I think in older generations of the church, there are often (not always) 2 viewpoints taken: either 1) If we don’t talk or think about it, it won’t matter, besides no church is perfect
or 2) we can’t change it, so let’s not worry about it.
THIS IS NOT AUTHENTICITY. this is the “plastic-everything’s-ok” mask that can drive entire groups and generations away. It’s not just the young desiring authenticity in the church, it’s many people. i think that when we do these things we place limits on what we will allow God to do (obviously He could break those barriers, but we make it harder for the church to experiece God in His fullness.)
hmmm…
you gotta have something better than that Klint!
Sorry for just jumping in but I need to ask:
What if in my way of connecting to Jesus in worship it causes others to disconnect? my frustration seems that any change within the Body we all (myself included) tend to reach for the axe and hammer: “cut off what I don’t want, to h*ll with the damage, it’ll heal. I’m just going to hammer my point home”. This is how I have felt treated in a trad church prior and how I feel others I care about have recently been treated. It angers me. But am I doing the same thing in reverse by insisting on change? Is it possible to have one body in unison on this, worshipping at the same cross with the same methods? For me, I’m not convinced that it is. On my angry days I want to continue to form new authentic bodies and let the old ones carry on in their traditions, if they die, then they’ll know. That’s an ugly thought. Can’t believe I just admitted that. ok, I’m not pretty today.
no, though that’s a cool idea (build suspense) i actually do need someplace to host it. -or- i just need to decrease the quality so i can put it on myspace… seeing as i am computarded, i know how to do neither. : )
i like your xanga background. it feel comfy
*feels
We love Cafe Santorini!! Hope you have a great visit in Old Town!
sounds like an interesting convo. I finally read the e-mail, and i must say, it is very true. The teens are searching for something, especially those who arent christians. Why else would kids be going to small groups inebriated? They’re searching, but they arent sure what. hmmm…
Hey Anne,
Just wanted you to know that I”m reading…
Debbie
Ran across this today….a little AW Tozer for you:
I say that a Christian congregation can survive and often appear to prosper in the community by the exercise of human talent and without any touch from the Holy Spirit! All that religious activity and the dear people will not know anything better until the great and terrible day when our self-employed talents are burned with fire and only that which was wrought by the Holy Ghost will stand forever!
Tragedy in the Church: The Missing Gifts, 30.
Now, worship is the missing jewel in modern evangelicalism. We’re organized; we work; we have our agendas. We have almost everything, but there’s one thing that the churches, even the gospel churches, do not have: that is the ability to worship. We are not cultivating the art of worship.
Worship: The Missing Jewel, 20.
This is a great discussion and I love the Tozer stuff.
I Know what you meant Tracy when you said “In that, they are willling and wanting to look past the package to the heart of the church and the heart of worship” refering to the younger generation…but I too (in the older generation) am sick of all this crap as well. Where is the heart of worship? And why can’t any of us find our ways back to it? Where is the Acts 2 church? It reads that “Everyday the Lord added to them those who were being saved.” Where is that? The whole thing makes me sad, and stirs up a desire to find a guy (or girl) with a guitar, a loaf of bread, some wine for communion and a Pastor and start a home church….
that is an awesome tozer quote – totally rings true…
sorry miss kristi, but you’re not even near old my dear.
i work the salad bar at dillons now, and i cut alot of fruits and vegetables.